"Factored Out" March 29, 2024

A place to discuss the weekly Wall Street Journal Crossword Puzzle Contest, starting every Thursday around 4:00 p.m. Eastern time. Please do not post any answers or hints before the contest deadline which is midnight Sunday Eastern time.
Acarl
Posts: 175
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:05 pm

#221

Post by Acarl »

Sorry. I think the explanation is almost more confusing. You have to eliminate letters unless BOTH across and down clue numbers are prime. I solved thanks to the zoom meet, but I’m not happy about it. When does the bar open?
User avatar
Joe Ross
Moderator
Posts: 5655
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:46 am
Location: Cincinnati

#222

Post by Joe Ross »

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, DON! @ship4u
User avatar
Deb F
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:02 pm
Location: Hilton Head Island

#223

Post by Deb F »

Oh, wow! Happy Birthday, Don! My gift to you was not bugging you for help on the meta. Even with your guidance, this would have been a tough one.

Happy Day to you and a good week to all Muggles!
User avatar
DBMiller
Posts: 608
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:59 pm
Location: New Hampshire

#224

Post by DBMiller »

I asked myself, "Where do you find prime real estate?"

Usually at the intersection of major thoroughfares. The title, 34a, and all the math related answers pointed to prime numbers. So if you look at all those intersections, you get the answer.
If I'm around, I am willing to join the Muggle Zoom room at other times to lend a hand to those in need.
Ergcat
Posts: 853
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:12 pm
Location: Seneca SC

#225

Post by Ergcat »

B17BCC21-934F-48B4-BB31-E7F9882B3D7B.jpeg
Happy Birthday, Don! Born on April Fools Day must be interesting! 🥳
User avatar
mheberlingx100
Posts: 573
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2019 11:39 am

#226

Post by mheberlingx100 »

DBMiller wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:42 am I asked myself, "Where do you find prime real estate?"

Usually at the intersection of major thoroughfares. The title, 34a, and all the math related answers pointed to prime numbers. So if you look at all those intersections, you get the answer.
I was looking for beachfront property, but didn’t find any.
arecibo
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:06 am

#227

Post by arecibo »

femullen wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 7:39 am
arecibo wrote: Sun Mar 31, 2024 6:15 pm Ashore! Only took me two days to realize that the hint meant X' and not X.

Ultimately, a fair and even clever installment, though I don't like the title.
Me neither. The title sent me down the deepest rabbit hole ever. I prime-factored every number in the grid and built groups of letters from composites and their primes. Nada. I convolved groups. Nil. Surely the Lambert W function would do it. Not! Hit the right method by accident and out of desperation. And I was angry that there was no factoring required at all.
You and me both. I also applied Eratosthenes's Sieve to the grid, twice -- once treating the black squares as cells to be counted and once not -- in the hope that a meaningful text would emerge. And then on Day 3 I had the idea (not bad) of "factoring out" common letters between horizontal answers.

Somebody wrote, "If the answer has a clue number that can be factored, take it out of the grid". But of course, prime numbers aren't distinguished by having no factors; in fact, they don't have even only one factor!

Thoughts from the peanut gallery:

Maybe a fairer title would have been "Land Rush" -- to hint at the point that what mattered were ranges of cells, and to evoke the "value" in the clue for 34A so that a plot that was doubly prime would be doubly sought.

Also maybe this is a case where including "two-word" in the meta clue ("certain two-word property") would not have hurt. Given that the true answer is plural, I don't think they'd receive many correct SWAGs, and having "two-word" might have made less attractive any set of, say, 12 or fewer letters.
User avatar
HunterX
Posts: 1265
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:17 pm
Location: Philadelphia, PA

#228

Post by HunterX »

Joe Ross wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 8:15 am 34A's PRIME REAL ESTATE meant the GRID to me, since it involves AREA. I started with the grid squares with prime numbers, only, which yielded gibberish.
This is what kept me stuck for the longest time, until being shoved off of it. I kept thinking REAL ESTATE meant “areas.” The grid is the representation of an area, divided into 15 x 15 smaller “lots” if you will. So eliminating everything not prime meant, to me, not eliminating any answers that were. I did start with just the squares that had prime numbers in them, but, as Joe said, that results in gibberish.

It was only after being shoved into looking not for prime numbered answers, but rather clues, which do not represent areas, that I got it. So you actually DO eliminate prime number squares, (i.e. PRIME REAL ESTATE). Eliminating 1A knocks out squares 2 and 3.

That was my nit.

What also kept me stumbling (and this is not a nit with the puzzle) was all the different ways to use prime numbers to identify things in the grid. Besides the prime squares and answers of prime number clues, there are many others, such as:
-Number of letters in the words?
-Letters that are “prime” according to their order in the alphabet?
-Number or words/letters in the clues?
-Etc.
User avatar
ship4u
Posts: 1062
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:00 am
Location: At Wit's End, Shaker Heights, Ohio
Contact:

#229

Post by ship4u »

Thanks for the Birthday well wishes @Joe Ross , @Deb F and @Ergcat !

There have been times that I felt it quite fitting that I should be born on All Fool's Day!

Now, let's hope that Mike Miller plans to send me a Birthday gift...... :)
Don & Cynthia

We are always happy to get to know other muggles and help in any way! PM's are always welcome. The next best thing to winning a mug is helping a fellow muggle win a mug!
User avatar
ship4u
Posts: 1062
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:00 am
Location: At Wit's End, Shaker Heights, Ohio
Contact:

#230

Post by ship4u »

With the many references to mathematics in this puzzle, I parsed the title in light of an Algebra application. My understanding is that to "Factor Out" in Algebra means "to isolate a common factor." Hence, I interpreted that to be a clue to "isolate", i.e., pull out, the common letters (factors) in the answers corresponding to prime numbers.
Don & Cynthia

We are always happy to get to know other muggles and help in any way! PM's are always welcome. The next best thing to winning a mug is helping a fellow muggle win a mug!
User avatar
Doug C
Posts: 118
Joined: Sat May 04, 2019 3:03 pm

#231

Post by Doug C »

I read 3 different explanations 3 times each and still don't get it. Not meant to be for me....
User avatar
woozy
Posts: 2628
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:40 am

#232

Post by woozy »

"By crossing out all of the answers whose clue numbers are not prime"

Doesn't that sound convoluted? Isn't it more natural to "look at the letters that are intersection of prime clue numbered answers"? I dunno sounds off to me.
Latest meta: Surround Sound

"No, this is Thompson with a P, __ __ psychology"
hoover
Posts: 2275
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:26 pm
Location: at the intersection of grits and breakfast tacos

#233

Post by hoover »

I think I was at a disadvantage because I solve on the computer, and it looks like this was a candidate for pencil and paper. I didn't even have a Hail Mary for this one. I thought "numbers whose prime factorization has 3 primes" was genius, but it didn't result in anything that looked like English.

Here's my entry for the Rabbit Hole Award.

Eliminate primes

Code: Select all

1 4 6 8 9 10 12 14 15 16 18 20 21 22 24 25 26 27 28 30 32 33 34 35 36 38 39 40 42 44 45 46 48 49 50 51 52 54 55 56 57 58 60 62 63
A O P T H A  L  B  B  L  A  M  R  D  A  S  S  T  C  M  H  M

...Oh. Eliminate *all but* primes.

Code: Select all

2 3 5 7 11 13 17 19 23 29 31 37 41 43 47 53 59 61 
F R A P L  A  A  Y  T  T  B  T  S  L  N  E  A  S
...Hmm, there are a lot of references to the number 3. What about finding all numbers whose prime factorization has 3 primes? like 30 = 2,3,5

Code: Select all

 8 = 2 2 2    T
12 = 2 2 3    B
18 = 2 3 3    A
20 = 2 2 5    M
28 = 2 2 7    C
30 = 2 3 5    M
42 = 2 3 7    O
44 = 2 2 11   A
45 = 3 3 5    C
50 = 2 5 5    S
52 = 2 2 13   O
References to 3:

Code: Select all

BETELGEUSE
TRISECT
Other pointers:

Code: Select all

ARITH
PRIMEREALESTATE
NUMERO
RATIONAL
TRADE?
What happens if we remove the letters in prime numbered spaces from the 3 longest answers

Code: Select all

BETELGEUSE
PRIMEREALESTATE
NOMANSLAND

BETELGEUSE
B..E.G.USE       1-10 remove 2,3,5,7
.ET.L.E...
PRIMEREALESTATE
.R.MER.A.EST.TE 11-25 remove 11,13,17,19,23
P..M.R.ALE.T.TE  1-15 remove 2,3,5,7,11,13
.RI.E.E...S.A..  1-15 keep 2,3,5,7,11,13
NOMANSLAND
NOM.N.LAND      26-35 remove 29,31
N..A.S.AND       1-10 remove 2,3,5,7
.OM.N.L...       1-10 keep 2,3,5,7
Take 2 symmetric themers and TRADE prime-positioned letters

Code: Select all

BETELGEUSE
.ET.L.E...
NOMANSLAND
.OM.N.L...

BOMENGLUSE
NETALSEAND
Divide the 2 symmetric themers into 3 parts, take first and last parts

Code: Select all

BET PRIME NO
USE STATE AND
I don't have anything clever to say, but if I did, it would go here.
Eli
User avatar
ZooAnimalsOnWheels
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:02 pm
Location: San Diego, CA

#234

Post by ZooAnimalsOnWheels »

woozy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:07 am "By crossing out all of the answers whose clue numbers are not prime"

Doesn't that sound convoluted? Isn't it more natural to "look at the letters that are intersection of prime clue numbered answers"? I dunno sounds off to me.
I'm sure it will be different for everyone, but I sat in on both Zoom groups this week, and I saw many people who took a while to parse the "look for letters at intersections... " instruction, especially for letters like the 'A' that sits at the intersection of 5A and 5D, because it doesn't seem like an intersection of two different 5's. Or wondering what to do with the letters in, say, 3D because none of the letters are at intersections with an across prime. And then they are tracing each cell back to two different numbers and trying to decide if both of them are prime...

If you mechanically cross out all the composite (and #1) acrosses, and then the downs, I feel there's not as much room for error or misinterpretation.
Image
Image
User avatar
HeyMikey
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2024 7:13 pm
Location: San Rafael, California

#235

Post by HeyMikey »

We have success occasionally when we try to reverse-engineer a guess at the answer. PRIME REAL ESTATE and CERTAIN PROPERTY went into the hopper along with all the math entries. The resulting inspired guess was SUBDIVISION. But that rabbit hole was very shallow. We tried to dig deeper but hit only rock.

Hints from the Friday Zoom call led to near immediate success. Thanks Zoomers!
I prefer my kale with a silent K.
OohLaAHA
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2024 12:17 pm

#236

Post by OohLaAHA »

Hello everyone. I've been lurking here about two years, and I've read all the explanations for this puzzle and none made any sense to me. When I read that other people had the same experience, I decided to take a picture of the way I was able to figure out the solution.
WSJ Factored Out
WSJ Factored Out
User avatar
Joe Ross
Moderator
Posts: 5655
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:46 am
Location: Cincinnati

#237

Post by Joe Ross »

Not an April Fools Day item:

I forgot to submit my answer this week.

You are all welcome.
User avatar
Joe Ross
Moderator
Posts: 5655
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:46 am
Location: Cincinnati

#238

Post by Joe Ross »

woozy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:07 am "By crossing out all of the answers whose clue numbers are not prime"

Doesn't that sound convoluted? Isn't it more natural to "look at the letters that are intersection of prime clue numbered answers"? I dunno sounds off to me.
No.

🙂
User avatar
sharkicicles
Posts: 1119
Joined: Fri May 10, 2019 12:03 pm
Location: Chicago, Walter the Shih-Tzu's home town

#239

Post by sharkicicles »

OohLaAHA wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:00 pm Hello everyone. I've been lurking here about two years, and I've read all the explanations for this puzzle and none made any sense to me. When I read that other people had the same experience, I decided to take a picture of the way I was able to figure out the solution.
20240401_111411[1].jpg
Impressed by the solution... almost even more impressed by the handwriting :)
User avatar
woozy
Posts: 2628
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2020 12:40 am

#240

Post by woozy »

Joe Ross wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 1:15 pm
woozy wrote: Mon Apr 01, 2024 11:07 am "By crossing out all of the answers whose clue numbers are not prime"

Doesn't that sound convoluted? Isn't it more natural to "look at the letters that are intersection of prime clue numbered answers"? I dunno sounds off to me.
No.

🙂
I guess my issue is when I looked at the words with prime clue numbers a bunch of the letters were actually *removed* from them because they belonged to non-primes in the other direction. However looking at the squares that were EXTRA special in that the were in prime clues in both directions was pretty clear.

To remove all but primes sort of sounds like "keep the primes". If I read it a second time "remove anything even remotely tainted by non-primeness" makes sense but it wasn't natural to me.
Latest meta: Surround Sound

"No, this is Thompson with a P, __ __ psychology"
Post Reply