"Go West" July 14, 2023

[woozy]

"Go West" was a fairly straightforward meta clue, but while looking backwards in the theme answers for regular words, those tricksy states were hard to spot.

I can't say how many times I looked west before I finally spotted Ohio and then Idaho.

Like 2 days!

Well... less than two days but more than twenty minutes. I guessed as soon as I saw the title that the mechanism would be things spelled backwards. But I looked in themers letter by letter and saw nothing for a long time.

Today I was hanging pictures and I picked up a bag of hangers. I walked with it in my hand as I looked for a stud detector and then noticed my hand was empty. I had to have put it down somewhere. I looked for it every where it could be. As it's a finite house there weren't too many places. A bookcase, the dining table, the kitchen counter, my pants pocket. I look for an hour and a half looking in the same finite number of places at least seven times each and it simply wasn't any of the places. My wife looked for a half an hour and she found it... on the dining table... "Wait" you are saying "that's not a punchline. The dining table was one of the places you mentioned. There's no twist to the story of finding it in an ironic place. It was in a place you said you looked seven times. I don't get it. What's the punchline?"

Well, that's all there is to it. Sometimes you know exactly what to look for, where to look, and how to look and... you miss it anyway.

[woozy]

Why is it CHATUP and not UTAH? UTAH is the hidden theme answer, in my opinion.

I thought the wording was confusing and awkward and ambiguous. But it did say the answer was the ENTRY .. that was a hidden theme answer... I think technically no answer is possible.

[Kas]

I find it so weird that I must have read those theme answers backwards…fifty times? Then I read the whole grid backwards. Then I circled all of the “W”’s. Then I read all of the Down answers from bottom to top. Then I tried to think of “West” stuff, like Mae West, “Go west young man,” “All quiet on the Western front…”, “Westworld…”

And did I see a State? Nope, not even once.

Sigh. It’s just like that, sometimes.

[Relic]

Ugh, count me among the UTAH submitters. 2nd time Matt has fooled me this year. I took the word "hidden" too literally. Chatup is definitely a theme answer but it is not a "hidden" entry. The hidden entry is Utah. Semantics matter. Think I'll create a flag with those words on it!

I have returned to the ship's bar. One more cabernet for me, Isaac. Please?

[woozy]

Is that the second answer? Utah? I was confused about the wording (tho I submitted Chat Up) but when hearing of a "second answer" I assumed Chat Up and Utah were basically the same answer.

[mikeB]

The prompt plays an oversized role in this puzzle. A prompt’s core purpose is to state a hard prerequisite for the solution, but sometimes, as in this case, the prompt also helps with the solving itself. Although this meta’s prompt is a bit muddled and arguably circular (The answer is an entry that’s an answer . . . hmm), it is nevertheless a high-octane nudge. We are told the solution is “the entry . . .”, which narrows our focus to specific candidates. Once we’ve deciphered the five key entries, the prompt delivers a list of 76 words and phrases, one of which contains a state’s name spelled in reverse of the entry. With that help, finding the answer is a quick process. The only fuzzy part is whether we submit CHATUP or UTAH, but the prompt had already cleared that up by requiring the answer to be an entry, not just part of an entry. In case of lingering doubts about that (given the prompt’s curious choice of words), there is a nifty final click (at least for members of the No-Coincidences Society). Namely, CHATUP is a fraternal twin of the Title GO WEST: both are six letters, and the bookends (C----P and G----T, respectively) in each case are separated by 12 letters of the alphabet. A coincidence? Or was it a nudge toward CHATUP?

[Conrad]

I submitted CHATUP, but I agree the prompt was unclear. I'm confident they'll accept both CHATUP and UTAH as the answer.

[woozy]

The prompt plays an oversized role in this puzzle. A prompt’s core purpose is to state a hard prerequisite for the solution, but sometimes, as in this case, the prompt also helps with the solving itself. Although this meta’s prompt is a bit muddled and arguably circular (The answer is an entry that’s an answer . . . hmm), it is nevertheless a high-octane nudge. We are told the solution is “the entry . . .”, which narrows our focus to specific candidates. Once we’ve deciphered the five key entries, the prompt delivers a list of 76 words and phrases, one of which contains a state’s name spelled in reverse of the entry. With that help, finding the answer is a quick process. The only fuzzy part is whether we submit CHATUP or UTAH, but the prompt had already cleared that up by requiring the answer to be an entry, not just part of an entry. In case of lingering doubts about that (given the prompt’s curious choice of words), there is a nifty final click (at least for members of the No-Coincidences Society). Namely, CHATUP is a fraternal twin of the Title GO WEST: both are six letters, and the bookends (C----P and G----T, respectively) in each case are separated by 12 letters of the alphabet. A coincidence? Or was it a nudge toward CHATUP?

Yes, but what the prompt actually says is the answer is an entry "that is a hidden sixth theme answer". CHAT UP is not a hidden sixth theme answer. CHAT UP hides a sixth theme answer but it is not itself a hidden sixth theme answer. There isn't any entry that is also a hidden sixth theme answer.

Assuming "theme answer" itself is a meaningful term (Is MAINE the "answer" to WHEN I AM OLDER?) in the first place. But I can't quite accept that the entries WHEN I AM OLDER etc. themselves can be called "answers". But even if they could, then CHAT UP isn't a hidden answer; it's right out there in the open.

EDIT: It could have just prompted "The answer is an entry that could serve as a sixth, albeit unmarked, theme entry"

[Ergcat]

Um... so what could possibly be the second answer.

When I read the comments about a “second answer” I went searching in the grid… and found nothing. I knew it had to be a short state we were looking for … IOWA OR UTAH. So that helped. I momentarily thought I saw IOWA if I mashed together 15a-16a but no and besides, that’s 2 entries! Haha.
I guess I wasn’t confused about finding an entry that could be the 6th themer. But after reading the post-reveal comments, I now understand the possible confusion over “hidden” in the prompt.
CHATUP also had the confirming click of “UP” in it so I felt good about “going North” instead of “go west” to find the reverse state name!

[eagle1279]

I thought it clear that an “entry that’s [also] a sixth theme answer” meant the whole grid entry/answer, not the state hidden within it. But I’m with those who think CHATUP does not qualify as a “theme answer” because you don’t “go west” to find the hidden state. But lacking any alternative, I submitted CHATUP.

Will be interesting to see if WSJ has to decide whether to accept UTAH. And has anyone suggested yet another defensible answer?

[Joepickett]

Related to the answer of CHATUP, I tried to enlist ChatGPT to help me with this puzzle. I had found the five states backwards and I was looking for another one so I asked ChatGPT to spell all 50 states backwards. Seemed like a pretty easy task.

ChatGPT failed miserably. I'm not going to worry about SkyNet taking over soon.

Here are some of the results:
List all 50 states spelled backwards.

Sure! Here is a list of all 50 U.S. states spelled backwards:

Alohio
Atarkansas
Notsalaska
Amabala
Ariorb
Anas
Aloirav
Anotlimah

Then I wrote, That list is wrong.

Response:
Apologies for the error. Here is the corrected list of all 50 U.S. states spelled backwards:

ecilA (Alabama)
sasnakrA (Alaska)
acisuM (Arizona)
anairdaL (Arkansas)
enruB (California)
enihsneM (Menhines)
sruocA (Arizona)
netopirC (Citrope)
ikinimoD (Dominiki)
atroP (Port)

I think it was as they say hallucinating. Perhaps it had a Guiness earlier...

[Colin]

That’s hilarious @Joepickett! Underlines that AI is a tool, not a brain substitute… for now, at least.

[Berto]

I agree with those frustrated by the sixth themer going South/North instead of West. In fact it took me a long time to see UTAH because I was so focused on looking at the Across entries - and found R.I. backwards, and then found it again - so thought people were concerned by the repetition!
Didn’t like it, kept searching and finally found Utah “backwards” in Chatup…

[otlaolap]

I agree with those frustrated by the sixth themer going South/North instead of West. In fact it took me a long time to see UTAH because I was so focused on looking at the Across entries [. . .].

It was exactly this that caused me to accept "hidden" as acceptable in the prompt.

[michaelm]

Matt Gaffney with the droll CHATUP pointer?

[sf592000]

Count me on the UTAH ship... the UTAH beach was very relaxing over the weekend!

[Bonnibel]

Why is it CHATUP and not UTAH? UTAH is the hidden theme answer, in my opinion.

I thought the wording was confusing and awkward and ambiguous. But it did say the answer was the ENTRY .. that was a hidden theme answer... I think technically no answer is possible.

The instructions were confusing. CHATUP contained the hidden theme answer UTAH, however it was not in itself the themed answer. It was in fact a themed entry but not the hidden answer.

I submitted UTAH as the themed answer with CHATUP as the grid entry. Under these circumstances I think both are correct.

The instructions should have been worded differently IMO.

[DBMiller]

I wondered if the alternate answer was madEMORe. Perhaps people saw the backward locations and hit on ROME first.

I submitted "CHATUP (UTAH)", and felt the whole grid entry was correct but covered myself just in case.

[Franklin.Bluth]

I wondered if the alternate answer was madEMORe. Perhaps people saw the backward locations and hit on ROME first.

I submitted "CHATUP (UTAH)", and felt the whole grid entry was correct but covered myself just in case.

But Rome isn't a US state...

[Deb F]

I spent way too much time in my rabbit hole. I was convinced it had to do with the states whose abbreviations were in the themers. At first I thought the states would read right to left, witness AL and AK in 17A, meaning east to west. 24A went from DE to MO to IA. But I hit a snag with 36A since it would have meant going west to east with OR to IA to AR. And then came 47A with OH to LA—I guess that’s east to west. Then I hit 57A and there was only OR. With that, I tried to focus on the western states in the themers but that didn’t get me anywhere. Then I fixated on Davenport IA. Was I looking for cities in those western states? None of this got me anywhere. It was IDAHO that got me going in the right direction.

For the record--like DB Miller, I submitted CHATUP (UTAH).

Have a great week, Muggles.