"There's That Voice Again" March 10, 2023

[BarbaraK]

It used to be that the WSJ online submission form would not accept punctuation. So when I saw that the solution had an apostrophe, I was expecting a rash of complaints that the website "wasn't working" (which would of course be a minor spoiler for everyone who knows about the issue.)

Did anyone submit that way? Did the WSJ techies fix their form?

[MMe]

Yeah, I tried it with the apostrophe and had to try again without.

[femullen]

I'm curious to know how many solved this on their own; is there any stat like that? For me puzzles like this one are impossible to solve and that makes me less inclined every week to even make an attempt. This is not in any way a judgement of the puzzle at all; it is a judgement of myself and my lack of meta-bility.

For this one, I solved solo but only got 4 of the 12 ‘actors’ on my own.

I know there are some people who really don’t like using google to solve metas, and I was thinking while solving that they’d need a lot of varied trivia knowledge for this one.

Ditto here. After the previous week's film fiasco, I went into this one resolved to just google the name of any movie star, rap musician, or luge champion I didn't already know. That included four of this week's final-step actors. So, while I solved "on my own," it was not unassisted.

[DBMiller]

Solo solve. But I had to look up Italy and Nomadland. Not an English major but I recognize the way 12 clues were worded and wrote those answers down. Reading the description of passive voice I had looked up Italy but at first use the city Milan which didn't work with George washington, but when I started backwards and knew Delilah, the Euro and the fable of the lion and the mouse, I knew I had it.

Knew my Marvel movies, but the video isn't hard to find. I googled "Loki thrown out of airship" just now and was led to this...

[BarbaraK]

Solo solve. But I had to look up Italy and Nomadland. Not an English major but I recognize the way 12 clues were worded and wrote those answers down. Reading the description of passive voice I had looked up Italy but at first use the city Milan which didn't work with George washington, but when I started backwards and knew Delilah, the Euro and the fable of the lion and the mouse, I knew I had it.

Knew my Marvel movies, but the video isn't hard to find. I googled "Loki thrown out of airship" just now and was led to this...

But --- the title of that video is, "Thor Throws Loki Out of the Spacecraft". That's a spaceship, not an airship. (An airship is a blimp.)

This is one of those times when google knows too much about what I usually want and not enough about what I'm looking for right now.

I just did that same search. My top results are all crossword websites that helpfully tell me the clue answer is LOKI. None of the youtube videos I got are the one you got. (I didn't watch them to see if they're actually the same scene, but definitely no mention of "airship" in any of the titles.) The only other hits that actually include both Loki and airship are books, not anything about the movie.

[MikeMillerwsj]

The contest answer is I WASN’T FOOLED. As hinted by the clue at 48-Across, name the missing actor in the 12 clues that use the passive voice. Those actors are: 1-A: Italy; 17-A: Washington; 19-A: Alice; 27-A: Scissors; 29-A: “Nomadland”; 36-A: Thor; 38-A: Frazier; 40-A: Othello; 42-A: Obama; 46-A: Lion; 56-A: Euro; and 66-A: Delilah. The initial letters of these spell the contest answer.

This was true ninja construction by Matt, packing in 12 thematically linked clues in precise order.  Our solvers rose to the occasion, with 1,612 entries and an above-average 90% correct.  Other guesses included "EUREKA MOMENT" (7), "IT IS FINISHED" (6), "THAT WAS TOUGH" (4), GIVE ME A BREAK (2), and a scattering of others.

We're still waiting to confirm this week's winner--stay tuned!

[Ergcat]

I'm curious to know how many solved this on their own; is there any stat like that? For me puzzles like this one are impossible to solve and that makes me less inclined every week to even make an attempt. This is not in any way a judgement of the puzzle at all; it is a judgement of myself and my lack of meta-bility.

@Inca don’t be discouraged! A couple of years ago when I first started, I didn’t get many metas! Had no clue what to do!! But after doing some, and studying past puzzles, I’ve gotten better and more confident.

Agree with Inca on this. Back in 2016, we only solved it once every two months or so. And in all of 2019, we got it right only once! Now it’s about 2 to 3 times a month.

But also curious what Ergcat means by “on their own.” I think everyone has their own honor system rules on this.

In our house we have two solvers, or four when our daughters

@Collegetowngirl i think you got your quotes mixed-up…. Happens in imbedded quotes. You were agreeing with me ( Ergcat) on encouraging Inca. It was Inca that said “on their own”, not me. And I agree with you that we all probably have our own “honor system” on solving & submitting.

[Inca]

I'm curious to know how many solved this on their own; is there any stat like that? For me puzzles like this one are impossible to solve and that makes me less inclined every week to even make an attempt. This is not in any way a judgement of the puzzle at all; it is a judgement of myself and my lack of meta-bility.

There are no stats for WSJ puzzles (unless someone is going through the comments and keeping a spreadsheet).

If by “on their own” you mean with no other people, MGWCC does track that and includes it in the weekly write up.

If you mean without google, I don’t know any meta that tracks that since most meta constructors seem to consider googling a normal part of the process.

.....

I meant with no other people. While I just hate googling (not because it's "unfair" but just because I like when it is not necessary), I wasn't referring to that because once you know what to google, you've already solved the meta as far as I'm concerned

[Inca]

I'm curious to know how many solved this on their own; is there any stat like that? For me puzzles like this one are impossible to solve and that makes me less inclined every week to even make an attempt. This is not in any way a judgement of the puzzle at all; it is a judgement of myself and my lack of meta-bility.

@Inca don’t be discouraged! A couple of years ago when I first started, I didn’t get many metas! Had no clue what to do!! But after doing some, and studying past puzzles, I’ve gotten better and more confident. This week, my meta journey was exactly like Woozy’s ( see post above). As soon as I saw clue 48a with “voice” in it and there was “voice” in the title, I knew this was the HINT/entry to the solve! I find There is always a hint somewhere ( sometimes not too obvious, though).
I always try to solve on my own first but if I can’t, I do reach out on this forum for a small nudge or get on the Zoom call for the group solve. This is a great group of Muggles and they all want everyone to solve!

Thanks for the encouraging words. I'm really not new to this at all. In fact, I am one of the originals going way back. I am just new to no longer being on the same wavelength with these metas at all.

[Sleepy]

Well, I’m pretty sure the contest winner is not me, because I forgot to submit

[Collegetowngirl]

@Inca don’t be discouraged! A couple of years ago when I first started, I didn’t get many metas! Had no clue what to do!! But after doing some, and studying past puzzles, I’ve gotten better and more confident.

Agree with Inca on this. Back in 2016, we only solved it once every two months or so. And in all of 2019, we got it right only once! Now it’s about 2 to 3 times a month.

But also curious what Ergcat means by “on their own.” I think everyone has their own honor system rules on this.

@Collegetowngirl i think you got your quotes mixed-up…. Happens in imbedded quotes. You were agreeing with me ( Ergcat) on encouraging Inca. It was Inca that said “on their own”, not me. And I agree with you that we all probably have our own “honor system” on solving & submitting.

@Ergcat I sure did get my quotes mixed up. Thanks for explaining!

[Bonnibel]

Solo solve. I haven't received any WSJ email so I have to assume I did not win yet again. Sigh.

[SReh26]

I solved with two nudges and I had to look up many of the protagonists. I even had to look up who beat Ali - Spinks came to mind but that was wrong.

I liked it because it was humanly possible at least!

[OGuyDave]

Totally fooled.

41A

TFTXWD anyway

[The XWord Rabbit]

He was bested by the XWord Tortoise in the final round of the ACPT tournament.
Yes, it is I, The XWord Rabbit with sorry news.

After two nominees last week, we’re back to watching a second coat of paint dry.

It’s hard to say why this one didn’t yield any sorrowful tales. It was certainly challenging enough. Mr. Gaffney’s “There’s That Voice Again” puzzle involved changing a dozen clues from passive voice to who or what would’ve been the answers, if written in active voice. The first letter of those entries spelled out the meta: I-WASN’T-FOOLED.

Judging from the Zoom call last week and the post-solution comments this puzzle generated, it seemed likely there would be a few holes, but alas, it was not meant to be.

Why, your Rabbit wondered… What was it about the mechanics of this one? He found the answer by staring in his refrigerator and finding two seemingly identical packages of cheese – same brand, same style, purchased on exactly the same day.

“Sometimes you get holes and sometimes you don’t.”

Your Rabbit likes to think such philosophy would’ve made Aristotle proud. Until next week, then.

[ship4u]

....everyone has their own honor system rules on this.

I think the important thing is to have fun with the metas.

I enjoy the comraderie of the wonderful people in this group. So many of the interactions I have had with the members here have been a highlight of my week. Without the social interaction here, I probably wouldn't bother with the metas.

As far as googling to help with the mechanism, I've learned a lot in the process. For example, I had never heard of the movie "Marty." After looking it up, my wife and I decided to get the DVD out of the library. It was fantastic!

There is nothing in the WSJ Contest Rules prohibiting solving with spouses, family or friends. Do what is fun for you!

[MaineMarge]

Happy Pi Day everyone!!

I’m making an apple pie today, you betcha

[MikeMillerwsj]

And here's this week's winner: Congrats to Alan Horowitz of Fair Lawn, NJ!

[woozy]

After two nominees last week, we’re back to watching a second coat of paint dry.

It’s hard to say why this one didn’t yield any sorrowful tales.

@Bird Lives had an intelligent and reasonable rabbit hole which he made into a crossword:

https://crosshare.org/crosswords/6cLju8 ... -and-again

[Larrry]

There's That Voice Again