MGWCC #743 — “Butterfly Effect” by Paolo Pasco

[MikeM000]

I'm quite certain the kids weren't an issue this week; rather that Matt had to play editor and look up every. single. one. of. the. obscure. references. contained. therein.

But just when I've had enough of a too-cloying-by-half amount of cluing, I get to 61-down and Vincent Adultman shows up! Yay!

I WENT TO THE STOCK MARKET TODAY AND DID A BUSINESS!

[markhr]

Beamed up. It was quite a workout to get there, but fun nonetheless.
Paolo's substitute puzzle was still a worthy week 4.

[HeadinHome]

I have all but one tiny piece, and I suspect that — as was true of my many flounderings in Calculus — it’s usually a little math mistake. This is driving me nuts. I’ve dm’d one solver… if anyone has it and see this and feels like checking my math I’d be grateful. Gotta focus on work tomorrow…. uhhh YIKES… TODAY! Yeah right now I gotta get to bed!

UPDATE - got it now… awaiting confirmation. My “close enough” turned out to be correct. Have had my vocabulary expanded. Now THAT was a labor-intensive meta! But a very clever idea.

[Abide]

Last piece took awhile, but made it. Great puzzle that was more of a 2.5 for me.

I will go on record now as disagreeing with anyone complaining about clue difficulty or “having to Google”. A lot of time went into these clues, and there is a lot to savor post-puzzle (Example 13-Across).

[woozy]

Well, I have no idea but if it's not what I think it might be then I have the most ingenious idea for a meta but one I can't imagine anyone being able to construct. And if this puzzle is what I think it might be than I'm astonished there isn't more gushing.

[MikeyG]

too-cloying-by-half amount of cluing

This is my brand, hahaha.

Knew what I needed to do right before my 10-hour shift began, so I had to play the waiting game. This was a fun one!

[benchen71]

I'm not seeing it (yet), which translates to "not fun at all (yet)".

[Cindy]

Solved

[Meg]

I’ve teleported successfully.

[boharr]

Took a lot of work to get beamed up!

[HeadinHome]

Last piece took awhile, but made it. Great puzzle that was more of a 2.5 for me.

I will go on record now as disagreeing with anyone complaining about clue difficulty or “having to Google”. A lot of time went into these clues, and there is a lot to savor post-puzzle (Example 13-Across).

Yeah… I was so bound up by the one sticking point in my meta pursuit that I quite forgot to mention the difficulty of the grid fill. I will be one to say the grid was definitely google-intensive, but not complaining. Certainly don’t mind using the googs if I’m going to learn something new (such as 13A)!
While I was filling it I did think “this may be the most difficult / least common-knowledge grid I’ve ever done…”. Such as 102D beside 103D, etc… current actors/roles and current recording artists would definitely be my weak spot. Well, that plus sportsing names. I did think that since there were so many of those kinds of entries, some of the more common words could have been clued less vaguely so you could cross-fill them more easily (is that the term, when you figure out an entry by its crossing entries?). So for example, “went” cluing a 4-letter word has tons of possibilities, and the one it actually clues would not have made my mental list and likely would not even have appeared on a googled list for synonyms, so if it doesn’t occur to you, you’d have to cross fill to get to it (and the cross fills were celebrities that had to be googled, for me). But this particular example — and others — could be just my problem, not being a “full time” crossword veteran, and thus not easily recognizing some of the common clue/entry pairs (if 117A is one… is it?).
Still, I totally enjoyed the puzzle and am blown away by what was accomplished here!

[Joe Ross]

A spreadsheet link was PMed to those I have on my MGWCC subscribers list who've requested it.

If you have not received this or would like to receive these going forward, please PM me. Please provide your posting screen name for MGWCC as it's subscripted & I will need to verify yours.

[Tina]

I thought many of the clues were clever and fun, especially 52D, 61D, and 67D.

[HunterX]

I'm definitely in the "too cloying by half" and "this may be the most difficult grid" camp. I didn't enjoy the grid at all. But I realize that might just be me (and a few others). I just don't like having to google more than a dozen clues, or finding that google won't help. Sure, some is just my lack of knowledge of current pop culture or internet culture, though I never complain about that since it's just not my knowledge base. And I do like clues/answers like 13A. But there were many annoyingly vague or ambiguous clues, and far too high a percentage of them, such that I couldn't even do cross answers to try to suss out an answer. (Also, I did find a couple outright errors in the clues, one of which I only found out from googling, while the other was just a minor annoyance.)

A lot of time may have gone into coming up with those clues, but I prefer constructors spend less time trying to be as deviously clever as they can with as many clues as possible, so that I don't find filling in the grid an unpleasant chore.

Again, this is just my taste-preference on crosswords. I'm not a constructor myself, so I don't fall into the category of those who relish the challenges of creating and/or deciphering a grid full of intentionally tricky clues. And yes, I can just choose not to waste my time filling in a grid I don't like. (Almost did this time!) This is just me venting my frustration at this particular grid, while stating a preference for grids that are a little easier (and thus, for me, more enjoyable) to get through. I'm not aiming for the Advanced Placement crossword class, or trying to get on the dean's honor roll. I just want to graduate to the meta-puzzle. At least the price of the MGWCC is so low that I'm not about to cancel just for a couple of nasty grid experiences.

On the bright side, it's a lovely day where I am. So there's that!

[woozy]

To pop culturally for my taste but I never ruled out google as an option. It's not cheating... I figure if a entry has only one possible entry it doesn't matter if one knows it by knowing it or googling it. It's just that googling it isn't fun .... for *me*.

Meanwhile a big blank wall on the meta right now. I get the references and am surprised by one thing but... can't figure what to do with them.

[HoldThatThought]

I'll be ignored, but I would plead that we not have the predictable blow up about puzzle styling.

The underlying issue is not really what winds up being argued about, anyway, which is why the whole debate becomes unresolvable.

The point can can easily be made that the traditional crossword outlets publish puzzles that will most appeal to solvers of a certain age and cultural, social economic whatever whatever. From that premise, we can reach the entirely reasonable corollary that the puzzle world needs to evolve. As a lifelong baseball fan, I come from a place where baseball fans surely must recognize that the grand old game no longer appeals to the younger generation that will need to keep it alive. Baseball is creakily adapting, crosswords must do the same. Eventually all the Saturday NYT solvers will die out, and either a new generation has evolved, or the puzzle world will die out, too.

We can also hopefully agree that the gatekeepers of the puzzle world like what they know and like, consequently, there are unrepresented communities that deserve outlets, and those outlets should be mainstream, not hidden along the dark corridors.

I would hope many of us would agree.

However, when these arguments break out, they're not actually about "this puzzle is invalid to me and shouldn't be allowed to exist", which is how most critic's opinions are ultimately portrayed. To me, the argument is more along the lines of "I've been coming to this old school steakhouse for years, and so have all the regulars I have come to know. I frequent the joint because I love the Steak Oscar and the Porterhouse and the giant shrimp cocktail and the martini, and that may be old school, but that's what I expect when I come here." That's not disrespectful or dismissive of other menus, and the people who prefer them.

Me, personally, I enjoy getting outside my comfort zone, and I'm not bothered by a puzzle that asks me to identify the guy who plays Tito on a show I've never even heard of - after all, grid filling is the least important part of these meta challenges. But... I really bristle at undeserved ad hominem attacks on people saying "I don't like feeling out of my league", which is sometimes unfairly interpreted as "all you new-fangled people with your useless noise need to get out of my yard."

It should be okay to say "I wish this outlet would stick to traditional stylings", even though there are many among us who would love to see newer, fresher voices. Both opinions are fair and worthy. Please don't hate on the commenter that says "I like the traditional puzzles best".

Me? I detest the ghost runner rule.

[Wendy Walker]

Beamed up! On vacation I did a lot of Fireball crosswords, which have even trickier clues than the ones in this puzzle. Sure, it was a challenging grid that required a lot of Googling ... but YEESH! What an ingenious and beautifully constructed meta!

[HunterX]

I'll be ignored, but I would plead that we not have the predictable blow up about puzzle styling.

My apologies to all if I started (continued?) a debate. Certainly didn't mean to. Just wanted to say it wasn't to my taste, but also give some details so it was not just that I don't like puzzles that include current pop culture, internet memes, or knowledge outside my comfort zone. I'm fine with all of that, and expect that will occur more often as the years go by. No issue there at all for me.

We can also hopefully agree that the gatekeepers of the puzzle world like what they know and like, consequently, there are unrepresented communities that deserve outlets, and those outlets should be mainstream, not hidden along the dark corridors.

Hear hear! I like doing the WSJ contest puzzle with my kids who have a huge knowledge base I don't have (and visa versa). We can share both the wonderful A HA! moments, and some of the same annoyances that inevitably will arise sometimes. They don't even say "Okay boomer" to me much anymore!

Me, personally, I enjoy getting outside my comfort zone, and I'm not bothered by a puzzle that asks me to identify the guy who plays Tito on a show I've never even heard of - after all, grid filling is the least important part of these meta challenges.

Great point. Agree totally that grid filling is the least important part of meta challenges. At least it's not the challenge I come for. (Which, I guess, was kind of my point.)

Me? I detest the ghost runner rule.

Oh, now you've done it. You made me google again. Why you little....

[woozy]

Whoa... I *dreaded* that the mechanism would be what it is.

But it is.

It's a clever idea but for the dedicatedly insane only. But very very straightforward (if you are dedicatedly insane).


EDIT: I'm going to admit it. I hate this. The grid is four times to big so overthing rattles around like screws in a tin can and the work you have to do is excessively painful and my wife is going to divorce me as I need complete silence as I concentrate and she insists on talking about trivial things like the repossessors coming to take our house and pets away and won't give me the 93 minutes of silence I need to do all the work for this.

EDIT: In hindsight, I like it better. Still painful and a lot of work. I'd have liked it better if the grid were 15x 15.

[rjy]

Whew... Beamed up! Just an amazing concept and construction with a terrific AHA upon finding the path... will be interested to chat further Thursday on this...