MGWCC #733 - "Couples Only"

[Cinny]

On the board -- with a nudge! I often find Matt's metas a challenge, but try not to ask for a nudge until I am desperate or the deadline is quickly approaching. I always submit those as a group solve since that is the only choice other than solo. I also have found that trying to maintain my streak has put a lot of pressure on me. Leaderboard or no leaderboard, I would still subscribe to Matt's metas.

[HoldThatThought]

Here's me demonstrating a personality flaw - I rarely leave well enough alone.

My first post to this subject seemed relatively well received, and I want to repeat what I said last time - there are multiple justifiable positions, and I respect not just the arguments, but I thoroughly respect the people coming down on every possible side of the discussion. If the comment about "let's keep it non-personal" was intended for me, gosh, I hope no one thought I was taking anything personal.

I can agree with all sides, without agreeing with everything that is being said to justify each of those positions. There are statements being presented as given truths, and so here's where I'm going to be "that guy".

The first solvers are not - by definition - the only experts in the meta world. It's been said a few times (paraphrasing) "We all know who the legends are, they're the ones who consistently solve fast and first".

Solving fast and first is, indeed, incontrovertible evidence of meta solving "genius" (if we're going to call it that).

However, it's short sighted to suggest that players who are not available at 4PM Eastern time on Fridays are demonstrably less skilled. I'm not nominating myself as a top tier solver, but I can tell you that I often don't get a chance to look at the puzzle until at least Saturday - I bet this is also true of people who do deserve to be considered meta legends. I think I can also speak for other solvers when I admit that I don't always have unbroken hours to spend on each puzzle. I'll fill the grid, look at the time, and realize I need to run to the store for a clove of garlic and a bunch of fresh cilantro.

I'm also going to take issue with a corollary of that "the fastest are the best" "axiom" - it goes something like "The best of the best can only be identified by looking at the top of the "most puzzles solved" list. Again, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that there may be brilliant solvers amongst us who have only participated in the challenge for two years, a year, a month, or maybe they just accepted the Gaffney Challenge for the first time this very week. There are legends at the top of the list - but there are undiscovered legends to be found mid-list, as well.

I've seen a couple of people suggest something that I think is true - that some of the most determined defenders of the consecutive week list's "purity" want the list to say something unequivocal about their superior skill. To each his own. As I said before, I gain a great deal of satisfaction when I solve alone (especially the harder weeks). When I can't solve - the more I stare - the more frustrated I get. At that point, I (personally) have no qualms about comparing notes with other creative folks. The best "fun" comes when my pen pal says "I don't have it either, let's see where we're at" - though sometimes they have already solved and I appreciate the stress-busting gift of a hint. Yes, this does mean that players who really really want the solvers' list to be pure are not going to be happy with me. I can live with that.

Hope this doesn't rub too many people the wrong way. If you're really upset by anything I just said, I probably didn't do a good job expressing it. Drop me a PM, because I'd love to talk it out.

Happy puzzling.

[MikeyG]

Finally got this. Quite a difficult solve due to the absolutely incredible number of red herrings, including one that must be the coincidence of all coincidences.

I will say I completely agree; I was down so many rabbit holes on this one, for sure!

[Bird Lives]

Got it with a pretty big shove. Normally, I'd submit that with a firm click on No at the Solo Solve line. But after following the discussion here, I might just fold and reset my number to zero.

UPDATE: Monday, 3:45: I submitted and am on the board at #141. Thanks to those who offered advice.

[patpatchica]

Well, I basically had to be dragged to the answer. It’s a good meta, but I just wasn’t really a fan of it. I hope Week 4 is better for me!

[panda95]

Anyone available to offer a nudge?

[Joe Ross]

Tonight's zoom session will be a perfect setting to further discuss group solves, assisted solves, partnering, nudges, etc.

Why? The written word is much harder to understand the person behind it than face-to-face discussion. I have the utmost respect for everyone who has stated opinions, but I've had the pleasure of getting to know them over the last 3+ years, here. I doubt there are hard feelings over this discussion, but it wouldn't hurt to be sure, and the muggle zoom room will put faces to everyone.

Knowing this crowd, all will be pleasant, but I'm sure @Bob cruise director will keep things in hand. Depending on turnout and the volume of requests to talk, Bob may have to set some unfamiliar controls in raising hands electronically & allowing only one person to speak at a time.

Come meet muggles you may not have yet. Use the zoom link above, below Isaac, or in a drop-down menu:

[woozy]

Tonight's zoom session will be a perfect setting to further discuss group solves, assisted solves, partnering, nudges, etc.

,,,,,,

Come meet muggles you may not have yet. Use the zoom link above, below Isaac, or in a drop-down menu:


Muggle Zoom Room phone.png

All the information one needs except.... the time.

[whimsy]

@woozy --- 7:30

But it actually is all the info you need because you can find it in the calendar!
Just a little cross referencing, like acrosses and downs!

[woozy]

@woozy --- 7:30

But it actually is all the info you need because you can find it in the calendar!
Just a little cross referencing, like acrosses and downs!

Sure.... but as long as we are spelling things out for people who may not be aware of things and ...... wow... there's a calendar? I never noticed that. That's kind of awesome.....

.....

And as long as I'm nitpicking, I'll point out that visual is the phone app and not the web page but.... oh, come on, woozy.

[burghman]

There’s an app?!?!?!

[SJMcK]

Bob, you may be right, but if that is so what does the list mean?

The list simply is what it is: a list of people who have submitted the correct answer to the meta. It has no inherent meaning beyond that.

[whimsy]

Per the instructions of @Joe Ross, I (and I don't even "do" the MGWGG) am posting something from Wordle.
So I have no idea why it's relevant. I usually follow the thread and check Fiend so I'll know a bit about what people are talking about Tuesday evenings, but I see that with the delay, it's not available yet.
So, I'm trusting you, Joe! And hoping I'm not somehow putting my foot in my mouth regarding the whole "stats" discussion!

So I hope it's worth the chuckle, or whatever, and know that now, I' too will be eagerly looking forward to the reveal come 6 PM!

[Cindy]

OK I vowed not to get in this discussion, but I have one very important question. If I talk to myself, is that a solo solve or a group solve?

[dsxwa]

Hey everyone, is anyone able to give me a point in the right direction? Appreciate it!

[MikeM000]

OK I vowed not to get in this discussion, but I have one very important question. If I talk to myself, is that a solo solve or a group solve?

I guess that depends on whether you answer yourself or if your evil twin Candy does.

I had a 7-week streak once. Given that, anything I could add would sound like gibberish or passive-aggressiveness. Or passive-aggressive gibberish. So from someone with beyond no horse in this race, I'll just say that the line at the bottom of Will's weekly Pandora email is a good thing to keep in the back of your mind.

[boharr]

I'll just say that the line at the bottom of Will's weekly Pandora email is a good thing to keep in the back of your mind.

That line is: “Nobody should ever do anything crossword related if it’s not fun for them”

[oldjudge]

OK I vowed not to get in this discussion, but I have one very important question. If I talk to myself, is that a solo solve or a group solve?

LOL, talking to yourself is fine, but when you start answering aloud there is a problem.

[Cindy]

OK I vowed not to get in this discussion, but I have one very important question. If I talk to myself, is that a solo solve or a group solve?

LOL, talking to yourself is fine, but when you start answering aloud there is a problem.

It doesn't work unless you answer aloud!

[three]

Anyone out there for a shove?

Found what I believe to be the answer thanks to some helpful, and much smarter than me, muggles.