"I've Got Two Words For You" - July 30, 2021

[ADS]

I’m ashore. I’lol have a beer.

[HeadinHome]

I’m also in the “who else could it be?” category, and also am not familiar (not a huge sci-fi reader). So I learned something, I guess.

Hand me anything frosty with some citrus in it; it’s bloody hot here in Carolina.

BTW, my bigger question about “well-known” is WHY IS IT HYPHENATED? The rule has always been* that when an adverb modifies an adjective and they are placed together before a noun, you hyphenate between them, but you don’t if they are not in front of the noun they’re modifying. BUT - the exception is, when the adverb ends in “ly” or if the adverb is the word “well,” leave out the hyphen. Did someone change the rules on me while I was over here aging? Why??

* So — you write “well known author” or “that author is well known.” But you DO use a hyphen here: “She’s a much-loved author.” But not here: “that author is much loved.”

(Just googled this, and yes there are sources that say the rule is changing. In the words of Sherwood Anderson, “I want to know why!”)

[sharkicicles]

I got a late start on this one, but on the shore like Niels Bohr having lunch with Al Gore.

[Franklin.Bluth]

Ashore. Could have made page 1 with a wrong answer that felt right, but took the time to look at it all more closely and Google my way to the actual answer.

[woozy]

Got it.... I think.

If I'm right (and I think I am) then .... does anyone else have the same complaint I do?

[Joe Ross]

You think that is bad. He saw my Red Sox cap and dumped the beer on my head and then charged me double.

I did not mind because @Meg and her Rays are still looking up at my Sox.

And a three-game set coming up for you guys. Meanwhile, it seems that whatever little data-dude is running the Yanks these days remembered that we have a nice little right field and acquired a couple of lefty bats. Duh. It ain't over.

This Cubs fan is in mourning. One of those lefty bats is Rizzo.

Redlegs got a couple of sorely-needed pitchers out of the deal. Offense hasn't been the problem.

[Joe Ross]

BTW, my bigger question about “well-known” is WHY IS IT HYPHENATED? The rule has always been* that when an adverb modifies an adjective and they are placed together before a noun, you hyphenate between them, but you don’t if they are not in front of the noun they’re modifying. BUT - the exception is, when the adverb ends in “ly” or if the adverb is the word “well,” leave out the hyphen. Did someone change the rules on me while I was over here aging? Why??

* So — you write “well known author” or “that author is well known.” But you DO use a hyphen here: “She’s a much-loved author.” But not here: “that author is much loved.”

(Just googled this, and yes there are sources that say the rule is changing. In the words of Sherwood Anderson, “I want to know why!”)

I'll be damned if I know, or is that "I'll be damn?"

[escapeartist]

I’m predicting a number of folks swimming back to the ship this week. Not “Pageant”-level (that would be a shark attack), this’ll be more like, “…oh, that swim was further than I thought…”

OK that doesn't bolster the answer I arrived at!

I thought it seemed solid enough, but I learned that lesson just a couple of weeks ago.

[DrTom]

Hmmmm - I am in the Joe Ross boat with a "who else" but REDACTED - WHICH IS SLIGHTLY BETTER THAN RETRACTED! XXX'X XXXXX XXXX X XXXXX XXXX XX XXXXX XXXXX XX XXXX. It just seems WAY too easy, but maybe that's the point. I am wondering if KAS has it right and there is more????

[hoover]

I’m also in the “who else could it be?” category, and also am not familiar (not a huge sci-fi reader). So I learned something, I guess.

Hand me anything frosty with some citrus in it; it’s bloody hot here in Carolina.

BTW, my bigger question about “well-known” is WHY IS IT HYPHENATED? The rule has always been* that when an adverb modifies an adjective and they are placed together before a noun, you hyphenate between them, but you don’t if they are not in front of the noun they’re modifying. BUT - the exception is, when the adverb ends in “ly” or if the adverb is the word “well,” leave out the hyphen. Did someone change the rules on me while I was over here aging? Why??

* So — you write “well known author” or “that author is well known.” But you DO use a hyphen here: “She’s a much-loved author.” But not here: “that author is much loved.”

(Just googled this, and yes there are sources that say the rule is changing. In the words of Sherwood Anderson, “I want to know why!”)

This may depend on which style guide you use. APA 7 (2019-present), used in my field*, says:

Another form of compound—the temporary compound—is made up of two or more words that occur together, perhaps only in a particular paper, to express a thought. . . . To determine how to hyphenate temporary compounds, follow these guidelines:

• If a temporary compound can be misread or expresses a single thought, use a hyphen, especially when the temporary compound appears as an adjective before the noun. When in doubt, use a hyphen for clarity.
• If the compound appears after the noun it modifies, do not use a hyphen.

Do not hyphenate:

• a compound that follows the term it modifies (example: behavior related to decision making)
• a compound including an adverb ending in "-ly" (example: widely used test)
• a compound including a comparative or superlative adjective (example: better written paper)

The APA 6 (pre-2019) style blog specifically shows the example of "well-known X" vs. "X that is well known."

*Field I'm currently studying, not the field I previously studied or the field I'm working in.

[b4alltime]

On shore, glad to be there on Thursday instead of Sunday.
Regards to all.
Jim

[woozy]

Hmmmm - I am in the Joe Ross boat with a "who else" but you'd think I would have at least heard of them. It just seems WAY too easy, but maybe that's the point. I am wondering if KAS has it right and there is more????

But, what more could there be?

(It *did* seem easy...)

[woozy]

Although I guess there could be an *easier* answer if one just jumped in the water and called it quits.... But if that were the case no-one going for that would be talking of googling.

[BEACHEDWHALE]

I'm on the beach. An easy one...

[Dow Jones]

Ashore. Everything clicks except the answer (unknown writer and bibliography). My first rabbit hole almost worked (but close does not count).

[ALS]

I think there may be a lot of pageanted people but I'm ashore. 100%

ALS

[mntlblok]

Guess I'm the only one who gets confused by those two icons. Suppose they're not *really* all that similar. Probably should break down and read the dern manual to see how to go about actually embedding images here, but likely won't.

Posting so that there'll be some data down the road for those left at sea. Collaborating with the wifey this week. Suspect that I've hit on the first step, and she's enthusiastically taken off with that. She's far less lazy than I, and less likely to waste time down my burrows of the absurd.

Enjoying the style discussion - stuff that I'm happy to learn even has rules associated with it. That "clarity" aspect sounds nice. Should probably break down and read one of those style manuals, too. Likely shall. Not sure that I ever cracked open my _Complete Stylist_ that freshman year. *Have* played ring toss in the bar at The Compleat Angler Hotel on Bimini, though - before it burned.

Fascinating to hear that there are at least a couple of plausible answers this week. And, also interesting to learn that it's not considered a "spoiler" to note that the author isn't necessarily all that well known. Still, most impressed with how many of you folks have so quickly found your way "ashore". And, still curious to see if we'll ever improve at this game. We've still only managed one solve after a couple of months.

[jimmyd]

Easy but enjoyable…. Have a great Friday! 🏝

[Joepickett]

Ashore I guess.

[HeadinHome]

This may depend on which style guide you use. APA 7 (2019-present), used in my field*, says:

Another form of compound—the temporary compound—is made up of two or more words that occur together, perhaps only in a particular paper, to express a thought. . . . To determine how to hyphenate temporary compounds, follow these guidelines:

• If a temporary compound can be misread or expresses a single thought, use a hyphen, especially when the temporary compound appears as an adjective before the noun. When in doubt, use a hyphen for clarity.
• If the compound appears after the noun it modifies, do not use a hyphen.

Do not hyphenate:

• a compound that follows the term it modifies (example: behavior related to decision making)
• a compound including an adverb ending in "-ly" (example: widely used test)
• a compound including a comparative or superlative adjective (example: better written paper)

The APA 6 (pre-2019) style blog specifically shows the example of "well-known X" vs. "X that is well known."

*Field I'm currently studying, not the field I previously studied or the field I'm working in.

Okay.. but boooooo. I mean, who is going to misread “well known author” as someone who is both well (healthy) and known??

As you say, it may have been an MLA choice versus APA (the standard in my field back in the ‘70s/‘80s when I learned it). They specifically lumped “well” in with the “-ly” adverbs for this rule. I hope they still do, God bless ‘em.

Also, Oxford comma.