XWord Muggles Forum

Al Sisti wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:06 am Wow, this all happened today? Fortunately I was making music so I missed it all. Anyway, here:

Picture9.png

Maybe @Al Sisti or moderator could edit the image Al posted to make it a little more DISCREET, i.e. by obscuring his email address so he doesn't get even more spam than he probably already does? It's visible even if you're not logged in.

What a great meta. For me, the term TABLE in the title had three involvements. The first was to suggest the Periodic Table of the Elements, which points to using the atomic symbols. The second was to implicate the contents of the Periodic Table itself (Caution: rabbit hole ahead!). The third was the synonymity of DISCREET and UNDER THE TABLE, which for me offered no help getting to the solution but did serve to authenticate the solution once it was found. My rabbit hole, after trying to make something of the eight letters in the atomic symbols, was to download the Periodic Table itself to try to work it using UNDER as a hint. Putting the meta aside for a few hours, I returned and “noticed” AG and AU in the grid, and that was that. My lesson learned: Always expect a term of directionality (such as UNDER) in the title to refer to the crossword grid (or possibly to the clue list); don’t try to apply a hint like that to a resource outside the puzzle, like the Periodic Table. Rabbit holes always look relevant until they don't.

For your amusement, here is everything I tried (red is stuff where I was actually sort of on the right track):

Crossing answers that +1 letter
GRID / RIGID / R / I
AGED / GRADE / E / R
CARE / CARNE / C / N
ALI / ALAI / L / A
IRS / STIR / S / T

Not-crossing answers that +1 letter
ALE / LEAH / . / H

Crossing answers that x1 letter
HOSES / SOPHS / E / P
STIR / RIDS / T / D
TEASE / SWEAT / E / W

Crossing answers that anagram
HOARD / RHODA / H / .

Not crossing answers that x1 letter
OLAF / CALF / O / C
SPRAT / SATYR / P / Y

Answers that +1 letter are a proper name
(T)IBET
CARNE(Y)
HO(W)ARD

Long entries associated with nationalities
BALD EAGLE = AMERICAN
LEPRECHAUNS = IRISH
EIFFEL TOWER = FRENCH
TOP BANANA = ?

Looking at the letters on the top row that are also in the bottom row, we have
A RID = ARID

Table = periodic table? look for element symbols?

61D in the bottom right corner is CASH, which goes with the title UNDER THE TABLE
CASH UNDER THE TABLE is a bribe
HOARD goes with theme of cash

First and last across answers are partial city names
1A BOCA (RATON)
71A (HIA)LEAH
TABLE = MESA (Arizona, not Florida)

Letters under the long entries

Code: Select all

BALDEAGLE
EFFENDI D

LEPRECHAUNS
 CAROL SCOT

EIFFELTOWER
   REAIR  H

TOPBANANA
IBET INKS

EFFENDIDCAROLSCOTREAIRHIBETINKS

Other oddities
ALPHA / IBET

GRID / SUDOKU STRUCTURE

ONENIL upside down is LINENO i.e. LINE NO, line number

Clues don't look out of place

FELT in the middle of EIFFELTOWER, and pool tables have felt

ANDEAN has two AN, and TOPBANANA does too (also two NA, as well as BA)

Turkish, Japanese, Indian, Persian ... Asian?

The bunnies and I are doing just fine down here, thanks!

Did anyone else run into "LEAH -> LEAD" and "COPTER -> COPPER" as a (metallic) rabbit hole?

Same question for references to Spanish ("BOCA, CARNE, OLE") and Japanese ("UDON, OBI")? It seemed that spelling table in different languages just wasn't the path, but it took me a little while to get to the correct 'table.'

Congrats to everyone who solved it - see you later this week!

JeanneC wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:33 pm

hoover wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:27 pm

JoeS wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 3:12 pm Natasha and I are at the dacha about 100km SE of Moscow. Could not get interactive grid loaded on my phone,, was able to load pdf but no printer here so reconstructed grid on graph paper. Solving grid not too bad, but sadly, do not see mechanism. Title and clues imply this should be drop dead simple, but not yet. It's 95 degrees here and no AC so sleep is poor. Czech beer may be slowing me down also.We are 7 hours ahead so I have one last chance til tomorrow morning. How about a Moscow Mule, Isaac?

Dacha, is that Russian for "cruise ship with excellent bar service"?

Trust me, it’s not!!!!!!!!!

More like a "reef with whatever has washed up". In our case, a bottle of Georgian Mukuzani to celebrate Natasha's mom's 80th birthday today.
I thought about periodic table but dismissed it as too far fetched, and did not pursue.

I liked the clever red herring of 61D (CASH) for "Under the Table"

My rabbit hole was looking under the symbols for all the higher "heavy" elements found under the periodic table - that was clearly a disaster.

When I realized that it was just the four, I wasn't sure because why not any other elements - until I saw each element was part of each clue.

4 stars - would solve again!

effENDi made me thing that under the END table we have AGE. But the only think further I could find was the FELT in eifFELTower (for a pool table???) for .... REAI????....

So when I pound my head on a wall I wonder... is there any thing odd or contrived in how the clues are given; Why is the clue for bald eagle about a silver dollar when there are are many more direct things to do with bald eagles. And clearly the "theme answers" are 17, 33, 43 and 65 Across (although LEPRECHAUNS being a single word puzzled me). What to they have in common.

Well the clues all refer to a metal. But what does that have to do with tables? Oh, the periodic table. So what are the symbols for those metals. Well, look there there are.

And I already figure the *UNDER* aspect and ... there it was.

It's impressive and astonishing but conceivable if we retro-engineer it.

If one's goal is to directly get to solving the meta and solving it as quickly as possible, then its conceivable that one might immediately start on the longest across clues. Those frequently are the "theme answers" and so going immediately to them is plausible and conceivable.

If you look at those clues together but in isolation to the rest of the grid it's easy to note they all have a metal specifically mentioned in the clues. This could very easily be done in 45 seconds (okay... it took me 4 hours but we aren't talking about me).

And metals + "TABLE" = periodic table => chemical symbols

So without having any of the grid filled in a very clever and very determined person could have figured out in one minute: The theme answer involves the letters AG, AU, FE, PB and something to do with looking "UNDER" things.

So is it that astonishing that in the remaining seven minutes such a person would have filled in the four longest across answers and the required down clues (less than 20% of the total grid) to reveal DI, SC, RE, ET under the AG, AU, FE, PB? And conclude that DISCREET=under the table is simply too coincidental to not be the final answer?

Okay.... yes, that is utterly astonishing!

But plausible.


(And I have no idea if that is what Al did.... but I can [barely, just barely] conceive someone doing it.)

I’m still sitting in the corner for not getting this one. We’ve been dealt the periodic table several times in my memory -I’m sure one of our resident nerds can come up with the relevant metas.
I went down the country symbol hole for a long time, but kept slipping on that banana peel.
And 3 of the 4 themers are actual names of movies. The Eagle Has Landed was a stretch.

Here’s my take on why it was so easy for some and not others-
if you are Bill Nye the Science Guy(or Al Sisti) seeing Pb, you’re off to the races
If you are Betty Crocker, it’s time for lunch
Table=Food! Yes! (er…No)
Though there were a lot of foods in the grid to put on that 62A plate.
Thanks, Mike. We needed that.

Well, I remain with Isaac for the week until next time! Periodic table did cross my mind very early on Friday after solving the grid, but dismissed it as I saw many elements in the long answers. Even saw the gold at the end of the rainbow, along with carbon, oxygen, nitrogen, sulfur. and the same in the other 3. Did not see the metals in the clues!

Thanks to Wendy for trying to get me there without spilling too much. I do enjoy the journey a ton and do not want too many clues along the way - that takes away the a-ha moment for me!

woozy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:24 am effENDi made me thing that under the END table we have AGE. But the only think further I could find was the FELT in eifFELTower (for a pool table???) for .... REAI????....

So when I pound my head on a wall I wonder... is there any thing odd or contrived in how the clues are given; Why is the clue for bald eagle about a silver dollar when there are are many more direct things to do with bald eagles. And clearly the "theme answers" are 17, 33, 43 and 65 Across (although LEPRECHAUNS being a single word puzzled me). What to they have in common.

Well the clues all refer to a metal. But what does that have to do with tables? Oh, the periodic table. So what are the symbols for those metals. Well, look there there are.

And I already figure the *UNDER* aspect and ... there it was.

@Woozy, this was exactly my meta journey!
( oh, I have a degree in Chemistry so I was very happy to see the use of the Periodic Table in a meta!!)

Doh!!!! My first thought was periodic table and I wrote out all of the elements of the periodic table which I found in the long clues. Then I took the letters under it. But I did not limit it to metals and like an idiot did not see those elements in the clues, even with a nudge to look carefully at the clues. I literally had discreet written on my work page but it was among tons of other letters which were under other elements. Oh well. Lesson learned.

I initially rejected the chemical elements idea as having been used too recently. Later I had my paper copy of the puzzle on a clipboard randomly folded in a way that only the clues were visible, at which point I saw the first three metal elements.

Did anyone else laugh out loud at “Lead” (as in top or head) being the fourth metal?

Shall hold off on boring folks with my idiotic, time wasting rabbit holes. But, not even *pondering* "periodic" when I would only barely misspell Mendeleev and never think of the periodic table without pronouncing it as one of the acids of iodine - per-iodic with a long "o" - leads me to conclude that I'm losing it. Even worse when kitchen, coffee, pool, end, nor any *other* table type came to mind. Looking more carefully at the wording of the theme clues *will* go onto the checklist. Stages of grief, indeed. . .

Susan Goldberg wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 6:59 pm Now is the time where I start to say, ok well if I solved it every week, it wouldn’t be a challenge would it? That doesn’t mean when I had dinner out with my husband, I didn’t ask him, so…”what does under the table mean to you?!”

If my wife had asked me that I'd have simply said, "Let's order four more drinks and I'll tell you...!"

Looking at the retro-engineering of this puzzle, I think Al probably solved it in less than 8 minutes and took time out for a Guinness before he posted.
Tables. Yeesh. Took me an hour to get to Periodic. I had kitchen table, dining table, picnic table, end table, bedside table, card table, poker table, bridge table, writing table, pool table, ping pong table, multiplication table.
All of which are now going up on eBay.

CPJohnson wrote: ↑Sun Jul 11, 2021 9:17 pm Meta Daughter to the rescue! We have solved, mostly due to her excellent intuition. (We arrived home at 11:15 pm Saturday night; she flew into Knoxville. Today was full of visits with family and friends, so we tackled the meta just a short while ago. Her 25-hour trip plus the day's activities have left her exceedingly tired, so she probably won't even submit or post.)

Indeed, perhaps sheer exhaustion spurred my brain cells to the correct path, knowing that sleep was just around the corner.
No submission of my own this week, happy to throw my lot in with Meta Mom.

My first thought for "Under the Table " was illegal and wouldn't you know, there was ILL intersecting with EAGLE in the grid.Then I looked at LEPRECHAUNS--well, it contains "CONS" (kind of). Couldn't get anything illicit out of the other two answers, so I abandoned that rabbit hole.

Fortunately, my next idea was to look at the clues and I followed the right path to the answer.I was talking it through out loud in the car, to the amusement (and--I can hope--astonishment) of my husband.

I had a dream last night, not of a meta solution, but of a Muggle potluck dinner.

I spent hours cogitating how 61D, "CASH," as in "cash...Under the Table," and appearing in the lower right corner, would reveal the mechanism. That was probably the deepest, most fruitless rabbit hole I've ever been down.

So very many rabbit holes investigated, but could never quite get there. I'll console myself with the knowledge that one of those holes was the periodic table, and I went so far as to pull it up and look at it, but then discarded that idea as I didn't see anything that worked. Guess I didn't look hard enough. Oh well, onto next week (which I'm sure will have something to do with calculating the distance between celestial objects using only a slide rule).