XWord Muggles Forum

Nothing but admiration, respect, and awe for The Great Gaffney. It's wonderful that he and others at WSJ engage and share with this community!

Loving the lively discussion and passion from everyone. Whether arguing for the chicken or the egg - beautiful minds all around. A historic meta. What a hoot!

Smiles and good cheer to all.

eagle1279 wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:15 am I'm one of the simpletons who briefly tried finding the six changed letters elsewhere in the grid but failing that, submitted ELON MUSK given the "names" in the grid. I understand those who found SPACE-X to be a possible answer with one quibble: When a company, corporation, or organization is the meta answer, it is always indicated more specifically than a "name" even though all of those answers were "names." E.g., in November the meta sought "a well-known chain of stores" (Kohl's). In October we were looking for "a professional sports team" (Florida Panthers). And so on: 7-Eleven was "a well-known retail chain (2023), Toyota was "a well-known company" (2021). if Space-X had been the meta answer, I would have expected "a well-known company" to be the clue. If I'd contemplated the choice between Space-X and Elon Musk, I would have chosen Musk as a "name."

True, but 06/03/22 meta "Be Transformed" (MG) "Answer is a 4-letter proper name" ==> EBAY

Well, that went splendidly.

I was concerned that "ETON MUST" becoming ELON MUSK might give it away too soon, and in retrospect I should've used a less risky title. (would be interested to know what percentage of solvers saw that off the bat.) There's a big head-desk aha if you don't see it and work it out later, but might not have been hidden enough so I should've just used another title.

MattGaffney wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:25 am Well, that went splendidly.

I was concerned that "ETON MUST" becoming ELON MUSK might give it away too soon, and in retrospect I should've used a less risky title. (would be interested to know what percentage of solvers saw that off the bat.) There's a big head-desk aha if you don't see it and work it out later, but might not have been hidden enough so I should've just used another title.

We definitely saw that right off the bat; I never figured out the meta, but submitted Elon Musk just based on the title.

I'm in camp Elon Musk.

All the long answers were names of people, each four letter first name and four letter last name. It made most sense to me that the answer would follow that construct. SpaceX just confirmed the answer. It's true that SpaceX is a name, but in the same way any noun is. If the constructor had wanted that as an answer , the clue would have been that the answer was a well-known company.

Elon Musk also fits better with the title -- Eton Must Change. Change the letters two four-letter words to come up with a name. I don't love that the answer was right in the title, but if you go through the whole mechanism to find SpaceX, the answer makes sense.

Count me as one who saw ELON MUSK from the title right away, using it as step 1 to then get to SpaceX.

I was torn between SpaceX and Spacek (as in Sissy Spacek) and thought the ETON MUST --> ELON MUSK was the last clue indicating that it was, in fact SpaceX and not Spacek. I never considered Elon Musk as a potential answer because it seemed too obvious. I saw "Elon Musk" in the title before I even looked at 1-Across.

MattGaffney wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:25 am Well, that went splendidly.

I was concerned that "ETON MUST" becoming ELON MUSK might give it away too soon, and in retrospect I should've used a less risky title. (would be interested to know what percentage of solvers saw that off the bat.) There's a big head-desk aha if you don't see it and work it out later, but might not have been hidden enough so I should've just used another title.

I used the ETON MUST to ELON MUSK as the protocol for what to do with the other grid clues. Then with the 3 lettered words to get to SPACEX. pretty elegant. NEVER would i think of submitting ELON MUSK.

MattGaffney wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:25 am Well, that went splendidly.

I was concerned that "ETON MUST" becoming ELON MUSK might give it away too soon, and in retrospect I should've used a less risky title. (would be interested to know what percentage of solvers saw that off the bat.) There's a big head-desk aha if you don't see it and work it out later, but might not have been hidden enough so I should've just used another title.

My niece misread the title, so got it immediately.

I haven’t seen this type of consumer uproar since Coca Cola tried to sell us New Coke.

If someone's keeping score, put me and the kids down for:
- Saw ETON MUST changes to ELON MUSK and realized it was the metanism.
- Changed the themers to names
- Found SPACEX
- Said, so it's Elon Musk all along? That's weird since we got that to get the metanism
- Thought, "This is Gaffney, there's another step."
- Suggested Keven Spacy
- Kids said, "No way! He's cancelled. Can't be him."
- Suggested Sissy Spacek
- Kids said, "Who? Nah. We don't know her."
- Submitted Elon Musk

Never even thought that "famous name" would refer to a company. "Proper Name" would be used if he wanted to include people, companies, cities, etc. And I don't recall a puzzle where a company-name answer wasn't designated by something other than just "name." But in this case, we just assumed (and we all know what ass-u-me does) that it was a person. Still, given the way you find Elon Musk at step -1, and SpaceX after step 2, I can see why people would think it should be SpaceX.

Hopefully they will accept both. You can't get SpaceX without solving the metanism.

Did anyone notice that the WSJ cooked the books in posting the "correct" answer. The explanation starts with "The correct answer is Elon Musk. Change the letter in each theme answer's words to get a famous (4,4) person."

HUH? Now it's claimed that we were looking for a person.
I am in BarbaraK's camp with SpaceX. A new page of Muggles history has occurred and will long be quoted in similar fashion to Pageant (which predated me).

We have not had such a lively debate on the answer since the "5-K" vs "Half Marathon" quibble a couple of years ago. I still liked and enjoyed myself with this meta (and I ended submitting Elon Musk, with a quick slap on my forehead about missing the opportunity to clock-in at 4:01 on Thu) so thanks MG as always for the fun time.
I also so desperately wanted to see a third step to create a solution for Sissy Spacek (would have loved a grid answer with "Sassy" to fulfill that) or Kevin Spacey ("Devin" somewhere in the grid, for NBA player Devin Booker). Since I did not find that and I wanted to continue peeling the onion for fun, I came up with a third step that led me to Marty Feldman (to me all roads in life lead to Mel Brooks' movies, with memorized lines and actors from them and actors. How did Marty Feldman materialize? Very simple.
Step 2 revealed SPACE X. I looked into definitions that could be answered with the letter X. Starting with:
4A: "Dot on a map" (of course X), grab letter T.
24A: "Fivers" (well two fives = 10); fantastic we got a nice roman numeral for that, grab letter A
34D: "Some NFL linemen" (a team can elect a lineman to be a receiver on a play; use the X from X and O to reflect that), grab letter R
36A: "Supposition" (of course X in logical theory represents a variable), grab me that nice T
69A: "A long time" (easy peasy, i'll see you in X years), get me that Y.
That equates to TARTY and if I had to choose between Mae West for her choice of tarty clothing) or Marty Feldman (to fit the meta logic, and more importantly, the aforementioned (again with this aforementioned?) principle of Mel Brooks being the final destination to every meta in life, I will very quickly choose the latter just because of lines like this "You offer a sincere compliment on a great mustache and suddenly she's not your friend anymore."

Which side are you on?

MattGaffney wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:25 am Well, that went splendidly.

I was concerned that "ETON MUST" becoming ELON MUSK might give it away too soon, and in retrospect I should've used a less risky title. (would be interested to know what percentage of solvers saw that off the bat.) There's a big head-desk aha if you don't see it and work it out later, but might not have been hidden enough so I should've just used another title.

I saw that but I didn't think it was significant. Lots of words look like other words and in and of itself it need have no more bearing then ETON is an anagram of NOTE or MUST is a word for unfermented wine need to be.

And it took me a long time of staring at the themers before I realized what to do with them.

MattGaffney wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:25 am Well, that went splendidly.

I was concerned that "ETON MUST" becoming ELON MUSK might give it away too soon, and in retrospect I should've used a less risky title. (would be interested to know what percentage of solvers saw that off the bat.) There's a big head-desk aha if you don't see it and work it out later, but might not have been hidden enough so I should've just used another title.

But even if you had changed the title, SpaceX would still seem to have been the (or at least a) correct answer, unless the contest clue was also changed to a famous person instead of a famous name, right?

MattGaffney wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:25 am Well, that went splendidly.

I was concerned that "ETON MUST" becoming ELON MUSK might give it away too soon, and in retrospect I should've used a less risky title. (would be interested to know what percentage of solvers saw that off the bat.) There's a big head-desk aha if you don't see it and work it out later, but might not have been hidden enough so I should've just used another title.

I assume you’re wracked with guilt. For shame!


Only kidding. I always start with a quick meditation on the title before launching into the grid. When considering Eton Must Change, I immediately thought of Elon Musk, and thought that may be a confirmation in regard to the final answer. I also thought perhaps the answer may relate to famous British secondary schools, perhaps leading to one of the traditional boys-only schools that have since become co-educational: Shrewsbury or Winchester being forerunners, due to the recency of their changes.

While working the grid, however, and filling in AlasAldi, the proximity to Alan Alda was obvious. And so working the two letter/three-letter word step, and finding SpaceX, I immediately clicked to say that the Elon angle is that confirmation I originally anticipated. My only gripe is that the two letter/three-letter word step becomes unnecessary with the application of the letter change to the title. Oh well… fun puzzle and certainly will be a week that is long-remembered here in Muggleton!

Thanks!
DaveG

Having read all the commentary and participated in the lively discussion on the Friday Zoom call, all I can say is, it's good we don't take these too seriously.

I am also one who saw “Elon Musk” before even staring the puzzle. In fact, in my meta solving I tried many paths where I included L and K or T and T along with the letters that I extracted from the theme answers. Bizarre to me that THAT is the answer and not a clue to unblocking the metanism.

Jeffrey wrote: Mon Jan 13, 2025 10:11 am The Great SpaceX Gaffe (ney)

This one is growing on me.