XWord Muggles Forum

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:41 am**

Seems to me that some folks are taking the puzzle title much more literally than necessary. Just as we have learned to look at the different possible meaning of the words making up a grid clue, we should use the same thinking for the puzzle clue. In this case, a sandwich is a meal served between two slices of bread, which we can consider to be a "between" meal.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:46 am**

Wondering if I had any company in chasing the rabbit that was the clue for 59A. The letters "MP" seemed to be the contents of a Greek sandwich.Spent a lot of time looking for further instances, with, of course, no luck.Well, maybe 57A, containing "hero." Anyone find any others? Lastly, the 67D sandwich, ahh, never mind!

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:52 am**

So frustrating, once again I get halfway there and just can't take the extra step to reach critical mass. I saw sLEDs sHAMs and sANDs [and also sLICEs) but got distracted that they were words and were all between two Ss. I saw some other bookends with other letters but since they weren't words, I just didn't try them out. Instead I got sidetracked by EGG and BEEF (which seemed against the norm to be part of the solution) and then found other hidden words (suriNAME, iN A MEss, and lengTHEN)) and in looking for types of bread found missing letters (M)ELBA or substitute letters [e.g. OAk to OA(T), slICEs to (R)ICE or dBACK to B(L)ACK], but none of these led to a pattern for finding other answers.

Basically I kept looking for full words and extra/substitute letters - and eventually too many holes sunk my ship before I could clear my head enough to get ashore.

But enough of a tease to keep me hooked.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:14 am**

The "meals" that the fillings go between could also be the grains in the bread. Corn meal is a common term, but meal can refer to any.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:16 am**

My father-in-law's lamentations often included a reference to the long days in the 1950's when he had to ride the trains from New England down to NYC and back to Boston for work..."with the other 'Ham 'n' Eggers'". I assumed he meant this was the popular sandwich of the dining car. Rather, it was parlance for "ordinary Joe" and was a term derived from early prize-fighting days. "Ham 'n' Eggers" described boxers who weren't too skilled, and fought not for the big prize money, but for ham and egg sandwiches.

But it will also make an excellent lunch on Easter Monday for this Ham 'n' Egger.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:21 am**

Here is what took me so long to get to the shore. Here are the rabbit holes I have explored in no particular order

First problem, I had Cases for 20A as I had never heard of Shams and that threw off the entire NE corner for a while.

Focusing on Slices of Bread and Between Meals

I started looking for some variation of Breakfast, lunch or dinner but that went no where.

I found Ham/hog and egg/hen and beef and scone. But a ham and egg sandwich is not the solution

I saw eat in 73 A and thought that there might be variations with hidden letters but nothing there

I tried splitting ME and AL and found some ME's but that lead no where

I saw NAME in two different answers but that did not lead anywhere

I tried the middles of odd words but there are too many of them

I tried something with the two rows of four 3 letter words (unusual) but nothing there

I tried the pattern of the grid but nothing

I tried looking through the clues with no success

I tried various kinds of bread like Rye (28A sort of), Wheat, Oat and bran but that led no where

I tried looking between the foods but they are too far apart

I tried the unusual words like diaspora and the ones that looked rare like lengthen and drools

I had seen the shams and sands early but did not link them. Light finally dawned and I started looking for cheese and realized that it was more than just beginning and ending with S so I looked for all the words which is when I got the meta.

Definitely a KAS 2

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:25 am**

By the way, when I posted the question about what you call the ends of the loaf of bread, I was somewhere in the middle of my wanderings and had no clue what the meta was. I hope that no one interpreted it as a spoiler.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:42 am**

Toby wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:01 am It brought back long-ago memories of the unsliced Jewish rye bread we ate as children. It would have a small black and red label (I think it was a union label) pasted right on the crust, like a postage stamp, that was hard to remove. My grandmother told us children it would make us smart if we ate the label, and so we did. I think she was the smart one.

Look for the union label, right?
I remember those labels from my childhood in a mostly-WASP suburb of Pittsburgh. The bread must have been imported from New York. And, IIRC, the only way to avoid eating the label was to slice it off.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:47 am**

I totally lucked into this one. Was just starting to think about possible strategies when I saw the ES in ODESSA (53D) and thought, huh, I wonder if it could be "grilled cheese"? Started looking: AGRA yielded GR, TILT yielded IL, SLEDS yielded "LED" and at that point I grokked the "matching pair" strategy.
Al, I feel so bad for you.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:24 am**

eagle1279 wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:42 am
yourpalsal wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:31 am I was happy to get GRILLED HAM AND CHEESE, but was slightly nervous about that SODA in the bookends. Just a coincidence, I take it?
I also noticed SODA but it was at the end of ATSSSODA so I agree it was a coincidence, not to mention the fact that I usually have a soda with my favorite sandwich...

I found the GRILLED part and submitted it, but was not 100% sure because SODA is a type of bread and so I really wanted to make the ATSS into some kind of bread as well. But I think you're right that SODA was a coincidence

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:57 am**

sHAMs was the first to jump out at me. Got HAM AND CHEESE pretty quickly, then looped back to pick up the GRILLED. Noticed the soda ends too, and thought how neat it would have been if all of the ends spelled a type of bread!

In my earlier meta days, I would get frustrated trying to use ALL of the puzzle title, when sometimes only part of it is significant. So this time, I just used the BETWEEN as important and ignored the MEALS.

I feel like I’m on fire this week! On the beach early here, and for the first time, got on the first screen of the MMMM leaderboard. Nestled in between those things, we had tornado warnings and a 24-hour power outage from about Tuesday at midnight til Wednesday at midnight. Was starting to plot contingency plans for how to do the WSJ meta if the power was still out on Thursday!

Windy and rainy today again, so I’m making Alton Brown’s quick sourdough bread (it takes less than 5 hours)!

It has been my usual for many years. https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/count ... ough-bread

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:06 am**

Bob cruise director wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:21 am Here is what took me so long to get to the shore. Here are the rabbit holes I have explored in no particular order

First problem, I had Cases for 20A as I had never heard of Shams and that threw off the entire NE corner for a while.

Focusing on Slices of Bread and Between Meals

I started looking for some variation of Breakfast, lunch or dinner but that went no where.

I found Ham/hog and egg/hen and beef and scone. But a ham and egg sandwich is not the solution

I saw eat in 73 A and thought that there might be variations with hidden letters but nothing there

I tried splitting ME and AL and found some ME's but that lead no where

I saw NAME in two different answers but that did not lead anywhere

I tried the middles of odd words but there are too many of them

I tried something with the two rows of four 3 letter words (unusual) but nothing there

I tried the pattern of the grid but nothing

I tried looking through the clues with no success

I tried various kinds of bread like Rye (28A sort of), Wheat, Oat and bran but that led no where

I tried looking between the foods but they are too far apart

I tried the unusual words like diaspora and the ones that looked rare like lengthen and drools

I had seen the shams and sands early but did not link them. Light finally dawned and I started looking for cheese and realized that it was more than just beginning and ending with S so I looked for all the words which is when I got the meta.

Definitely a KAS 2

Thanks for posting this, Bob. I think it might serve as a helpful primer, particularly for newcomers, to give them a feel for the kinds of mental gymnastics involved in working to solve metas.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:15 am**

So when I was worried that my answer was too simple...I was correct. I stopped at HAM. I had noticed a couple other bookending pairs, but not enough to start forming the rest of the solution. And HAM, while super simple and jumping out from the grid, fit the puzzle and mechanism.
Yeah I hope this isn't the week my answer is pulled also!

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:20 am**

After seeing beef, egg and ham right away but not mislead by something so obvious, I got so excited to find 'ham and cheese' flanked by sodas acronym, which I agree is just coincidence, that I completely ignored grilled. Hall of shame, and I donate a bottle of Monkey 47 gin the tiki-bar as restitution.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:33 am**

OGuyDave wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:46 am Wondering if I had any company in chasing the rabbit that was the clue for 59A. The letters "MP" seemed to be the contents of a Greek sandwich.Spent a lot of time looking for further instances, with, of course, no luck.Well, maybe 57A, containing "hero." Anyone find any others? Lastly, the 67D sandwich, ahh, never mind!

Yup. Some Greek letters were scattered about and looked to see if they would spell gyro or similar.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:37 am**

Jazzvibist wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:06 am
Bob cruise director wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:21 am Here is what took me so long to get to the shore. Here are the rabbit holes I have explored in no particular order

First problem, I had Cases for 20A as I had never heard of Shams and that threw off the entire NE corner for a while.

Focusing on Slices of Bread and Between Meals

I started looking for some variation of Breakfast, lunch or dinner but that went no where.

I found Ham/hog and egg/hen and beef and scone. But a ham and egg sandwich is not the solution

I saw eat in 73 A and thought that there might be variations with hidden letters but nothing there

I tried splitting ME and AL and found some ME's but that lead no where

I saw NAME in two different answers but that did not lead anywhere

I tried the middles of odd words but there are too many of them

I tried something with the two rows of four 3 letter words (unusual) but nothing there

I tried the pattern of the grid but nothing

I tried looking through the clues with no success

I tried various kinds of bread like Rye (28A sort of), Wheat, Oat and bran but that led no where

I tried looking between the foods but they are too far apart

I tried the unusual words like diaspora and the ones that looked rare like lengthen and drools

I had seen the shams and sands early but did not link them. Light finally dawned and I started looking for cheese and realized that it was more than just beginning and ending with S so I looked for all the words which is when I got the meta.

Definitely a KAS 2
Thanks for posting this, Bob. I think it might serve as a helpful primer, particularly for newcomers, to give them a feel for the kinds of mental gymnastics involved in working to solve metas.

Also for newcomers, if you are going to ask for a nudge (hopefully off line), show the person that you have really, really tried to get the answer and the nudge might be "you are way off base try something else" or "you were very warm at one point'

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:08 pm**

I usually could make a list 3 times that long!

As I think I have mentioned - I've been to the point where I was making origami with the paper grid trying to see what letters might match up in in the black spaces. Or if any images appear.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:53 pm**

Wendy Walker wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:47 am I totally lucked into this one. Was just starting to think about possible strategies when I saw the ES in ODESSA (53D) and thought, huh, I wonder if it could be "grilled cheese"? Started looking: AGRA yielded GR, TILT yielded IL, SLEDS yielded "LED" and at that point I grokked the "matching pair" strategy.
Al, I feel so bad for you.

Aw... it's appreciated, but not deserved. That's what happens when you -- ahem, I -- rush things. The early bird may indeed get the worm, but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:10 pm**

Good meta, IMHO.

I guess grilled ham and cheese is a "type" of sandwich, though that's a little weird -- I'd just clue it as a "sandwich," reserving "types" of sandwich for broader categories like, say, "submarine" or "open-face." It's like saying "tuba" is a "type of instrument." Well, okay, but why didn't you just say "instrument?"

So initially I was looking for broader categories, and SURINAME is just a "B" short of anagramming SUBMARINE, so that distracted me for a while.

The sandwiching letters spell out A TS'S SODA, a nice shout-out to trans people and their soft drinks.

Posted: **Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:17 pm**

^^^
I agree. And I will say that had "Ham' been broken down like "Cheese" was I highly doubt I would have solved this puzzle. I was definitely looking for a "type" of sandwich and something more exotic than what the answer was.

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