XWord Muggles Forum

Kwyjibo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:58 am

JRS51 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:37 am Once I got to 44-D I solved the meta very quickly. Until then, the clue at 16-A was so bizarre, I was certain it would have something to do with the ultimate answer. What does that clue mean? Why the “while ‘hero’ is ‘bator’” in parentheses? I hope someone can explain that one. Thanks!

Ulan Bator is the capital of Mongolia. Mike just gave us a little trivia with the clue.

Thanks, that helps a little. But I’m afraid I still don’t understand the while hero is bator part. What does hero mean in this statement? So often a weird clue or answer is a step in solving the meta but this seems like it’s totally random.

Oh, apparently Ulan Bator translates to red hero. This trivia was not helpful to this muggle!

JRS51 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:08 am

Kwyjibo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:58 am

JRS51 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:37 am Once I got to 44-D I solved the meta very quickly. Until then, the clue at 16-A was so bizarre, I was certain it would have something to do with the ultimate answer. What does that clue mean? Why the “while ‘hero’ is ‘bator’” in parentheses? I hope someone can explain that one. Thanks!

Ulan Bator is the capital of Mongolia. Mike just gave us a little trivia with the clue.

Thanks, that helps a little. But I’m afraid I still don’t understand the while hero is bator part. What does hero mean in this statement? So often a weird clue or answer is a step in solving the meta but this seems like it’s totally random.

When I first started reading the clue I thought who would know the Mongolian word for Red, but then when I saw hero is the word for Bator, it clicked that it must be Ulan since Ulan Bator is one of two pieces of trivia that I know about Mongolia; the other being Genghis Khan.

A more direct clue would have been Mongolian Capital ______ Bator or _____ Bator.

Kwyjibo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:26 am

JRS51 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:08 am

Kwyjibo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:58 am

Ulan Bator is the capital of Mongolia. Mike just gave us a little trivia with the clue.

Thanks, that helps a little. But I’m afraid I still don’t understand the while hero is bator part. What does hero mean in this statement? So often a weird clue or answer is a step in solving the meta but this seems like it’s totally random.

When I first started reading the clue I thought who would know the Mongolian word for Red, but then when I saw hero is the word for Bator, it clicked that it must be Ulan since Ulan Bator is one of two pieces of trivia that I know about Mongolia; the other being Genghis Khan.

A more direct clue would have been Mongolian Capital ______ Bator or _____ Bator.

Thanks!

escapeartist wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:15 am I can’t be the only one first looking for Hall and Oates.

You were not.

Kwyjibo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:26 am

JRS51 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:08 am

Kwyjibo wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:58 am

A more direct clue would have been Mongolian Capital ______ Bator or _____ Bator.

But what would be the fun of that?

I liked that clue and found it straightforward enough.

Oh.... seven letters! I just assumed it was educated guess which ones to read up and it kind of irritated me that there were 8 words and 4 themers so the "seven" in the clue was kind of misleading and a bit disappointing that only the "up" was a clue and the "seven" was a red herring.

But seven letters... that's kosher cricket.

I eventually found my way, but I spent loads of time looking for something related to diatomic elements. There're 7 of them, they're duos, a common mnemonic is "Have No Fear Of Ice Cold Beer" (ok, that fits this board more than it fits the puzzle)... They're in a "7" pattern in the periodic table, which kinda sorta looks like a crossword grid. A few clues started (or ended) with N/O/I/B (not Br), but that didn't lead anywhere, and I couldn't find anything in an obvious "7" pattern (down or up).

And I missed if it was already mentioned, but the "7up" puzzle was intentionally on 7/7, right?

This is one of those metas whose components all work together to create the perfect totality that is ours to find. First is the Title. Titles can be tricky, because they can play different roles in different puzzles. One meta’s Title may give a nudge about the mechanism; i.e., start helping as soon as the grid is done. Another’s may sit quietly until the end, where it gives us the final click that closes the deal. This week’s Title does both. “DUOS” suggests that we be on the lookout for pairs of . . . something. “POP DUOS” sounds like a theme, but ambiguous. My first thought was musical.
(Oh no . . . another solve stymied by one of my many knowledge gaps.) Later comes the helping hand at Clue 44D –- the gift that keeps on giving. First is an uncommon feature: The Clue connects literally with the Title, as both begin with the word “Pop”. That not only boosts the importance of POP; it also resolves the earlier ambiguity: It turns out the solution isn’t about music; it’s related somehow to soda pop. Aha. But the Clue isn’t done with us yet. The parenthetical says the Entry is a hint to the duos we’re looking for. I’m always on the lookout for numerical and directional nudges in Titles, Clues and Entries, and this is a lalapalooza: We need to read upward (i.e., in reverse order) to find strings contained in seven-letter entries. Experts here may not have needed that nudge, but it saved me a lot of time. At first, I found one upward string in each of the four key Down Entries and its respective link to a partner Clue. But wait: We need eight letters. Two guardrails helped: Don’t forget (I had forgotten) that we’re looking for duos, and stick with the Down Entries so we can read upward. So . . . find an additional upward string in each of those four Entries and each one’s partner Clue. The result is BEVERAGE, which ties wonderfully back to the POP that links Clue 44D and the Title –- a one-two punch for the final click. Fabulous is the way this puzzle’s components (Title, Prompt, Entries, Clues) interact and help in multiple ways. As did watchmakers of yore, Mr. Shenk has done some beautifully intricate constructing on this one – kudos to him for such a well-engineered mechanism.

(Basically my version of what @mikeB said).

Here’s how to be a great constructor of metas:
1. Notice that 7-up spelled out and spelled backwards and divided into two other words, PUN and EVES.
2. Realize that it can be placed vertically so that UP can be taken literally.
3. Find three other 7-letter words that have this same property.
4. Think of an appropriate 8-letter word that can be a fitting answer.
5. Think of a title that ties it all together.

I have omitted filling the grid and writing the clues. Modern technology makes these fairly easy. Doing them well, of course, may take some effort.

At first I thought that #3, finding other themers, would be difficult, so I tried it. I managed find a few, none as brilliant as NUDNIKS,

WALNUTS - LAW STUN
SPARKLE - ELK RAPS
BEDTIME - EMIT DEB
PANDORA - AROD NAP
RAMPART - TRAP MAR
LEGROOM - MOOR GEL
TRACTOR - ROT CART
TINNIER - REIN NIT

also some eights and a nine.

REVOLVER - REV LOVER
GATEMAN - NAME TAG
PARTTIME - EMIT TRAP
FLOWERETS- STERE WOLF

Try it. Ideally the words you find will not just go forwards and backwards (or down and up) but if it’s a compound word, the inverse version will divide in a different place. Most of the compound words in the above list, e.g., BEDTIME, fail on this criterion.

My rabbit hole ( briefly)… after getting hint “SEVEN UP” I knew we were looking for soda pop duos, not musical duos. I fist saw 31d RITE , I thought of “Diet Rite” cola. And there at 25a and 23d ( reading “up”) was DET. Aha, “Diet missing an I”. That’s one letter…. Scanning grid again I didn’t see any obvious soda pop duo names ( e.g. Mountain Dew, Orange Crush — although there was “ORANGES “ ??) so I asked Mr. Google. Did you know there was a soda pop called “INCA Kola”??? And there’s “INCA” in the grid! Ah, is there perhaps “Koala” somewhere to give me another letter??
No! And then I ran out of soda pop duos!! I then focused on the UP in the hint and quickly found the 4 themers!

We traveled down a rabbit hole focused on "UP":

SCOOP UP
TORE UP
CUED UP
EARLY UP
PAIR UP
PASS UP
ALLOW UP
ISN'T UP (okay, that one is a stretch, but there's always a trick one, eh?)

7 of the first letters of our new words anagram to spell PEPTICS.

Hmm, Pepsi Cola was first advertised to relieve dyspepsia......

"Nay, lads. Put out yer torches. We're down the wrong hole. Call UP for a ladder." It's the wrong beverage.....

My initial thought was to count to the 7th letter UP. But there were only 6 grid words with 7 or more letters, and NODTES didn’t even anagram to anything drinkable.
Then @Bob cruise director stepped UP with a nudge to get me heading in the right direction.
Here’s a POPular duo in my garden for you Coral Charm peony

Ergcat wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 7:50 am My rabbit hole ( briefly)… after getting hint “SEVEN UP” I knew we were looking for soda pop duos, not musical duos. I fist saw 31d RITE , I thought of “Diet Rite” cola. And there at 25a and 23d ( reading “up”) was DET. Aha, “Diet missing an I”. That’s one letter…. Scanning grid again I didn’t see any obvious soda pop duo names ( e.g. Mountain Dew, Orange Crush — although there was “ORANGES “ ??) so I asked Mr. Google. Did you know there was a soda pop called “INCA Kola”??? And there’s “INCA” in the grid! Ah, is there perhaps “Koala” somewhere to give me another letter??
No! And then I ran out of soda pop duos!! I then focused on the UP in the hint and quickly found the 4 themers!

Ergcat, I was right (Diet Rite) there with you. DIET actually intersects (broken into duos! - DI and ET) RITE. No Mountain Dews, Dr. Peppers, Coca Colas, etc., so I went with the literal "seven up" and quickly swam ashore. Glad my mind isn't the only one that worked that way! Cheers!

mikeB wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 5:43 am This is one of those metas whose components all work together to create the perfect totality that is ours to find....

As did watchmakers of yore, Mr. Shenk has done some beautifully intricate constructing on this one – kudos to him for such a well-engineered mechanism.

Nicely put @mikeB .

As Sir Edmund Hillary said after reaching the summit of Mr. Everest: "It's not the mountain we conquer, but ourselves."

Aragorn wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:20 am

escapeartist wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 12:15 am I can’t be the only one first looking for Hall and Oates.

Hall n' Oates, Simon and Garfunkel, Wham!, definitely went down that rabbit hole.

Oh, I spent a lot of time in this rabbit hole. Presenting my POP DUOS:
SKIN DUN=BROOKS AND DUN
PETS BUD=PET SHOP BOYS
RATS LET--RATKOJAT
PUN EVES--DAFT PUNK

Problem was--now what? Answer--start over! DUN was the word that pushed me back to the clues. I had never heard that word associated with ECRU before so it was then it all fell into place!

Good luck, Muggles. And have a great week. Hope everyone in the states stays safe from heat and flooding!

Went down all the rabbit holes described so far. . Then went deeper into the pop band hole….did you know that there is a band called “Seven Up”? And, there are 8 others: The Dawn, Dayo Band, Ulan Batar band, Kong Band, Mani Pedi band, III Nino, Leer Brothers. Truth, google them! And, then when we couldn’t do anything with this enlightening discovery, I saw something else in the 4 across pairs of answers with 7 letters and the same in the 4 down pairs with 7 letters. It goes as follows:

Nudnick (a song by Chris Potter)/ Dubstep(Pop band)
Telstar (song by the Tornados)/ Senen Up (band)
Oranges (pop band)/ Let’s See (song by Lucki)
Pro Shop (song by Packy)/ Endemic (band)

That’s eight right? The answer must be in there somewhere!!!
NOPE! Finally saw skin reading backwards in the 4d answer and then dun right after and knew this was finally the right path!
Had a pretty good aha!

Bird Lives wrote: ↑Mon Jul 10, 2023 6:40 am ....

At first I thought that #3, finding other themers, would be difficult, so I tried it. I managed find a few, none as brilliant as NUDNIKS,

WALNUTS - LAW STUN
SPARKLE - ELK RAPS
BEDTIME - EMIT DEB
PANDORA - AROD NAP
RAMPART - TRAP MAR
LEGROOM - MOOR GEL
TRACTOR - ROT CART
TINNIER - REIN NIT
....

My favorite!!

This puzzle had the mechanism that I tried so hard to get to work for “Playing Dress-up”.

I knew I had the right idea, it was just a few weeks early.

I was trying to get through this one too quickly, so that when I finally found the mechanism and went back to the associated clues, I wrote down ALOE for skin soother without even consulting the grid, because it's always ALOE, right? This gave me EAEVAREG, when going from top-to-bottom instead of bottom-to-top. My brother let me know I had an error at the final hour, which allowed me to find it.

The shallow rabbit hole I ran into was looking for names to make into "duos" as per the title. And besides the many names as names in the clues, there also seemed to be disguised names: Peter, Jordan, Bud, Pink (pop star!), Dun (& Bradstreet?) in the clues, Kim in YAKIMA, Del in YODELER, Val in RIVALS. But no duos to be found among them.

My first rabbit hole was bands who’s name is repeated twice. I found “Duran” starting across, then turning up. So I started looking for other bands like “The The” “Go-Gos” and “Django Django” to no avail. When you’re trying to find eight of those, they get pretty obscure! Math eventually clued me in…how do I get an 8-letter answer from seven (seven-up)? That’s when I saw the four 7-letter clues that divided into two words each =8! Solving is often pure luck for me. If I’m not sharp-eyed that day, forget it.