Page 2 of 3
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 4:18 pm
by KayW
Wow this week is killing me. I finally got the WSJCC after much pain, but I still see nothing on this one. Nor the mega meta nor the herring.
At least this puzzle can have my undivided attention for a day or so. I have a semi-humorous - to me, anyway - dead-end conflation story to share post-deadline.
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Sat May 09, 2020 5:48 pm
by Amanda Hugginkiss
Hi everyone! I'm new here, although I've been reading posts since the beginning. So excited to finally be a member. I just dropped in to say how strange it is to look at a meta for what seems like hours and get nowhere, and then pick it up the next day and see the answer right away. I guess your brain keeps working on it in the background. I hope I posted correctly!
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 2:45 pm
by burak
I don't even see a rabbit hole this week, I think the 15x13 grid has thrown me off too much. There are some famous 14-letter singers that come to mind, so I'll roll the dice with one of them I guess.
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 3:49 pm
by rexthree
On the board.
New to this puzzle (although not new to this forum). This was my first MMMM so glad to start with a success.
I'm going to do the earlier months puzzles to see if I can make any progress towards this Mega Meta thing (or Red Herring). Although I consider myself lucky just to get a regular Meta! One step at a time!
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Sun May 10, 2020 11:39 pm
by burak
I read the solution and sorry, hard no from me.
The title being quite straightforward and this being the fifth puzzle of the year, the silent letter idea obviously crossed my mind. As a non-native speaker, I hate metas, trivias and puzzles that involve the concept silent letter. English is a language in which words have multiple pronunciations that change from region to region let alone country to country. Bring diphthongs and all that into the picture and it's a mess for someone like me to decipher what is silent and what is not.
In addition to that, the theme entries here were problematic too. If you look at Merriam-Webster, sophomore has three pronunciations and in two of them the letter o is not silent whereas in all of them the letter e is silent. As such, february has two variations and r is pronounced in one of them (that is how I personally say those words, no silent letters).
I like the general idea and the final bow in general, but the execution was very problematic for me for reasons explained above. That might be the first ever MMMM that I truly object to.
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 12:24 am
by KayW
burak wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 11:39 pm
I read the solution and sorry, hard no from me.
The title being quite straightforward and this being the fifth puzzle of the year, the silent letter idea obviously crossed my mind. As a non-native speaker, I hate metas, trivias and puzzles that involve the concept silent letter. English is a language in which words have multiple pronunciations that change from region to region let alone country to country. Bring diphthongs and all that into the picture and it's a mess for someone like me to decipher what is silent and what is not.
In addition to that, the theme entries here were problematic too. If you look at Merriam-Webster,
sophomore has three pronunciations and in two of them the letter o is not silent whereas in
all of them the letter e is silent. As such,
february has two variations and r is pronounced in one of them (that is how I personally say those words, no silent letters).
I like the general idea and the final bow in general, but the execution was very problematic for me for reasons explained above. That might be the first ever MMMM that I truly object to.
Can I ask where you saw the solution? I saw the hint which did not help me. And arghh! that approach was one of the few I tried but could not generate a name from...
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 12:27 am
by burak
KayW wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 12:24 am
Can I ask where you saw the solution? I saw the hint which did not help me. And arghh! that approach was one of the few I tried but could not generate a name from...
https://crosswordfiend.com/ almost always posts the solution at the deadline for major meta puzzles.
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 12:34 am
by LaceyK
Where did you find the solution? I'm guessing you are just talking about the Hint. I like the fact that a hint is published before the solution because it gives me a chance still work on it. From the hint, I was able to solve, but yes a little disappointed because I did try that strategy. I had the C and O and the R, altho I agree some places it says to pronounce the R. I think it's a stretch to get the A from TragicallyHip. I would have said the A and one L. Plus I was also rounding up silent Es which then made the collection of letters nonsensical. Once I knew from the hint to keep trying that strategy, I dropped the L, and the G was always screaming out at me. Then I could see what was going to be spelled out. As for something to tie up the answer in a bow--the singer dropped Cougar from his name? But I didn't know that until now when I googled.
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:00 am
by anjhinz
I had this idea from the get-go, but couldn't get it to work... It didn't even cross my mind that the answer would be short and require an extra step to get to 14 letters, so I spent all week trying to pull silent "sounds" instead of letters form the "4" themers. I saw "SIGNFOR" but missed "GUESSSO", for some reason, the U didn't count as silent. I read the solution then looked at my grid and saw "C O G A R" clear as day along the ride side. What a heartbreaker!
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:36 am
by Joe Ross
First sttempt at a MMMM, not that it matters. Should have seen the mechanism and solved, but I agree with
burak. Had I found it, I may have objected to "FEBUARY" on principle.
I don't have many principles left, so I have to take a stand somewhere, perhaps. Plus, my crossword-addicted mother drilled grammar & diction into me*. In honor of Mothers Day, then.
*all previous, present, & future errors are this user's responsibility - leave his dear, sainted mother out of it!
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 11:40 am
by pmxwords
Hi folks-
I'm bummed that this month's meta didn't work for some of you!
I agree that silent letters can be ambiguous and pronunciations do vary.
And in hindsight, maybe it would have been better to star the theme entries, to narrow down the hunt.
Pete
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 11:45 am
by KayW
Thanks, Pete!
I thought of the "silent letters" approach but was stubbornly locked into finding 14 of them. That meant I had to look beyond the longer across answers. I had the "H" from OHM, etc... The only silent letters I had from the theme answers were mus-C-letension, sophomor-E-year, gues-S-so, si-G-nfor.
Missing the U from GUESS was an oopsie on my part. As I suppose is A from TRAGIC-A-LLY. That's a fairly common elision, and I'm sure I do it when I say the word but not in my head when I read it. I think because my brain first forms TRAGICAL when I see it.
But I NEVER would have included SOPH-O-MORE or FEB-R-UARY because I PRONOUNCE those letters.
A funny little conflation mishap while solving...
At some point after this week's WSJCC "Build Your Brand" dropped and while I was still struggling with both puzzles, I googled lists of 14-letter singers. One of the ones to pop up was Karen Carpenter. I thought WOO-HOO! "Build"! "Carpenter"!
... and then of course realized I was thinking of the title to the wrong puzzle
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 1:33 pm
by burak
pmxwords wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 11:40 am
Hi folks-
I'm bummed that this month's meta didn't work for some of you!
I agree that silent letters can be ambiguous and pronunciations do vary.
And in hindsight, maybe it would have been better to star the theme entries, to narrow down the hunt.
Pete
In my experience, your puzzles are always very thorough and the answer, even when convoluted, emits a solid click. That's why I was surprised by this one. Still, thanks for the ride and see you next month
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:21 pm
by Laura M
Ha! I decided to look again for the red herring, and instead found the *actual* path to the mega-meta! (I'd "solved" it before, in theory, but really I just got lucky with a guess.) Still no idea on the red herring :-)
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 11:18 am
by damefox
Laura M wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 5:21 pm
Still no idea on the red herring
Laura M, the MMMM scoreboard says you've solved 7 puzzles, so you must've had a breakthrough in the last 18 hours because the only way that's possible is if you've solved all 5 months plus the mega plus the red herring! And I believe you are the first person to get both! Yay!
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 12:17 pm
by TMart
Laura M wrote: ↑Mon May 11, 2020 5:21 pm
Ha! I decided to look again for the red herring, and instead found the *actual* path to the mega-meta! (I'd "solved" it before, in theory, but really I just got lucky with a guess.) Still no idea on the red herring
Congrats! I knew my spot on top was very precarious after missing Lynyrd Skynyrd. Now I have some extra motivation to find that red herring.
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 1:52 pm
by Laura M
damefox wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:18 am
Laura M, the MMMM scoreboard says you've solved 7 puzzles, so you must've had a breakthrough in the last 18 hours because the only way that's possible is if you've solved all 5 months plus the mega plus the red herring! And I believe you are the first person to get both! Yay!
I did! Sort of! Um. Actually I'm conflicted about this. In hindsight, I don't think that I would have gotten the red herring on my own. But I asked my husband (who doesn't do metas, but who is better than Google specifically for 80s songs) a question, and he came up with an answer.
Honestly, I usually don't ask my husband stuff about metas, it was just a random thing that came up when I was starting dinner because we're both home all day now. And I didn't really think it was the answer, but I submitted it because why not, and at least I could stop thinking along those lines.
So I'm at the top of the contest board, which was a rush at first! But I got there by pure dumb luck and knowledge that wasn't mine, so now I feel guilty. I'm trying to decide whether it would be better to ask Pete to remove my red herring solve, or to offer to let everyone else ask my husband an 80's song question (one per person). Any thoughts?
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 1:54 pm
by Al Sisti
According to Pete, correct guess of the red herring gets you 5 points, incorrect guess costs you one. Not sure I want to risk it until/unless I'm sure. And right now, I'm not.
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 2:00 pm
by FrankieHeck
Laura M wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 1:52 pm
damefox wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:18 am
Laura M, the MMMM scoreboard says you've solved 7 puzzles, so you must've had a breakthrough in the last 18 hours because the only way that's possible is if you've solved all 5 months plus the mega plus the red herring! And I believe you are the first person to get both! Yay!
I did! Sort of! Um. Actually I'm conflicted about this. In hindsight, I don't think that I would have gotten the red herring on my own. But I asked my husband (who doesn't do metas, but who is better than Google specifically for 80s songs) a question, and he came up with an answer.
Honestly, I usually don't ask my husband stuff about metas, it was just a random thing that came up when I was starting dinner because we're both home all day now. And I didn't really think it was the answer, but I submitted it because why not, and at least I could stop thinking along those lines.
So I'm at the top of the contest board, which was a rush at first! But I got there by pure dumb luck and knowledge that wasn't mine, so now I feel guilty. I'm trying to decide whether it would be better to ask Pete to remove my red herring solve, or to offer to let everyone else ask my husband an 80's song question (one per person). Any thoughts?
LOL just enjoy it! I'm impressed. Sadly, I wouldn't even have anything to ask your husband. I am seeing NOTHING for either the mega or the red herring. If you knew what to ask him, then it's totally your win. It's not your fault he's better than Google. He's like a reference book that you had the wisdom to pick up
Re: "That Which Should Not Be Said" - May 2020
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 2:55 pm
by damefox
Laura M wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 1:52 pm
damefox wrote: ↑Tue May 12, 2020 11:18 am
Laura M, the MMMM scoreboard says you've solved 7 puzzles, so you must've had a breakthrough in the last 18 hours because the only way that's possible is if you've solved all 5 months plus the mega plus the red herring! And I believe you are the first person to get both! Yay!
I did! Sort of! Um. Actually I'm conflicted about this. In hindsight, I don't think that I would have gotten the red herring on my own. But I asked my husband (who doesn't do metas, but who is better than Google specifically for 80s songs) a question, and he came up with an answer.
Honestly, I usually don't ask my husband stuff about metas, it was just a random thing that came up when I was starting dinner because we're both home all day now. And I didn't really think it was the answer, but I submitted it because why not, and at least I could stop thinking along those lines.
So I'm at the top of the contest board, which was a rush at first! But I got there by pure dumb luck and knowledge that wasn't mine, so now I feel guilty. I'm trying to decide whether it would be better to ask Pete to remove my red herring solve, or to offer to let everyone else ask my husband an 80's song question (one per person). Any thoughts?
I'm with FrankieHeck, it's still your win. Enjoy it! I'm still trying to figure out the "real" path to the mega meta, which I also got sort of by luck, and have no clue on the red herring. Husbands who know 80's songs are a perfectly valid Google alternative in my book. (I do not have one of those though, so I'll have to ask actual Google, if I ever figure our what I should be asking.)