#682 - "Minty Fresh"

An excellent puzzle written by one of the innovators of the meta crossword format. It comes out every Friday at noon and increases in difficulty throughout the month. Available for modest subscription (worth every cent) here: www.xwordcontest.com
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ellgee
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#61

Post by ellgee »

Whenever I am in the position to offer nudges, I always fret that maybe I'm being too vague or roundabout. It's reassuring to see that others have the same philosophy to try to preserve as much of the eureka moment for the solver as possible. (Though now I'm neurotically worried that maybe my nudges are not vague enough?)
MikeM000 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:40 pm As I mentioned to someone in PMs, one path that caught my eye was that 2 of the 4 coins are obliquely referenced in clues ("Ike" and "one-fourth") and I searched far and wide but couldn't find the other two...
When I was deep in the weeds, I noticed that the "certain NHL team" (echoing "certain coins") is Buffalo Sabres and thought it might have been cluing buffalo nickels.
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Guffman
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#62

Post by Guffman »

Your nudges were generous and very much appreciated. I just didn't see this one - not at all. I was tired, frustrated and needed to get away from it. The nature of the beast, I suppose.
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HeadinHome
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#63

Post by HeadinHome »

ellgee wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:59 pm When I was deep in the weeds, I noticed that the "certain NHL team" (echoing "certain coins") is Buffalo Sabres and thought it might have been cluing buffalo nickels.
I had exactly the same thing written on my scribbly sheet!

Also, Telluride/Denver (CO), Buffalo/West Point (NY) -- all the mints. And FRISCO in the NW corner. :evil:
The other Wendy. :roll:
stmv
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#64

Post by stmv »

Here's a cleaned-up version of how I figured out the meta answer:

Image

In the end the mechanism here was surprisingly close to last week's mechanism (that I didn't get; I was one of those who got the right trigrams, but didn't see how to put them together).
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BarbaraK
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#65

Post by BarbaraK »

Meg wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 8:41 am I went looking for that specific information on Matt's site, and thought it interesting that I couldn’t find it. Matt has, however, put a link to our forum in his FAQs.
Edit: either I missed it or Matt just put something in his FAQs about what a solo solve is.
You're not blind (unless we all are). Looks like he just added it. You think he's reading our comments here or something?:)
HeadinHome wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:31 pm ^ but I'm sure anyone winning a prize at year's end who failed to switch the button to NO would graciously defer their swag... right??
The "you've won" notification includes a request that you verify that you did indeed solve the puzzles solo. Apparently it's pretty common for people to forget to check the "no" button and then ask Matt to change it, and he's not sure he always gets around to all of them.
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DrTom
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#66

Post by DrTom »

BarbaraK wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:01 pm
BarbaraK wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:47 pm
But that never made it into the FAQ, so anyone who signed up in the last 2.5 years didn't have any easy way to know that. So much as I love having another column in my spreadsheet to track the solos each week, I do wonder how meaningful it really is.
I can’t believe that I suggested that anything in or potentially in my meta spreadsheets might be meaningful and got no reaction. Are you all just humoring me?! Figure I’m too far gone to even be worth teasing about my nutty geekiness?

Well, in for a penny😉, in for a pound, so how about if I paraphrase that fount of wisdom, Mr. Ed:

A nudge is a nudge, of course, of course,
And no one is solo when nudged, of course,
Unless, of course, you have no chance of medaling anyway.

Because, as noted above, solo doesn’t affect anything except eligibility for year end prizes. (And data on meaningless spreadsheets:)
I LOVE me some spreadsheets and if you are looking for meaningless data you are talking to the king. I mean I used to track clinical interventions, just to see at the end of the year how many I had made. Then I got to categorizing them according to type, then disease state/system addressed, then subdividing according to time spent...NONE of this had any real affect or meaningful data concerning patient care, its just that, like potato chips, once I started I could not stop.

At least in your case people seem to ask for the data you have, in mine it was acknowledged and silently ignored for fear I would then be compelled to show someone else how to do it.

T

All nudges are a treat for me
If I can't solve it singly (sung sing el ly)
Ideas spreading out as they evolve
Keep al your ethics just gimme that meta solve
NUDGES!I am always willing to give nudges where needed; metas should be about fun, not frustration. Send me what you have done so far because often you are closer than you think!
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MikeM000
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#67

Post by MikeM000 »

DrTom wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:52 pm
I LOVE me some spreadsheets and if you are looking for meaningless data you are talking to the king. I mean I used to track clinical interventions, just to see at the end of the year how many I had made. Then I got to categorizing them according to type, then disease state/system addressed, then subdividing according to time spent...NONE of this had any real affect or meaningful data concerning patient care, its just that, like potato chips, once I started I could not stop.
Ummm... don't you have people who do this for you?

Signed,
A guy who does data analysis & reporting for a team of clinical pharmacists, and has found over the past 25 years that doing this professionally keeps him from doing any of this type of stuff as a hobby.
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BarbaraK
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#68

Post by BarbaraK »

DrTom wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:52 pm I LOVE me some spreadsheets and if you are looking for meaningless data you are talking to the king. I mean I used to track clinical interventions, just to see at the end of the year how many I had made. Then I got to categorizing them according to type, then disease state/system addressed, then subdividing according to time spent...NONE of this had any real affect or meaningful data concerning patient care, its just that, like potato chips, once I started I could not stop.

At least in your case people seem to ask for the data you have, in mine it was acknowledged and silently ignored for fear I would then be compelled to show someone else how to do it.

T

All nudges are a treat for me
If I can't solve it singly (sung sing el ly)
Ideas spreading out as they evolve
Keep al your ethics just gimme that meta solve
So how many did you have? And what type? Sounds fascinating to me!
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MikeyG
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#69

Post by MikeyG »

Per solo solves, my definition would wholeheartedly agree with Matt's.

If a single nudge cometh my way
No solo solve will I unearth today

Obviously, if the rabbit holes are spinning, then I reach out to mitigate frustration. A nudge solve, esp. for the camaraderie, is better than nothing, unless I don't have anything whatsoever (WOODPECKER, PERFECTA), then I just pass, though that's my opinion.

This one was an interesting one - I sometimes don't have time until Friday night or Saturday morning to start the solve - but I look at the title, and I'm thinking, "Wow, that gives me nothing - toothpaste, maybe?" And I didn't see anything until the cryptic clue in the middle, and I was like, "Bingo." My math nerd side knows that penny + nickel + dime + quarter = 41 cents (and bingo!: 41-A).

And I also saw the PNDQ in "PSANDQS," and I guess OCHO was fresh in my mind since the mechanism seemed similar. I played around with things like 1-, 5-, 10-, and 25-D and then saw the 7-letter downs. And bingo! Although I was worried I actually needed to "CHANGE [MY] ANSWER" to get the right answer but figured that was far-fetched, haha.

Looking forward for a breezy Week 1 coming up to kick off July!!

Mikey G
Less cross words, more crosswords.

Solve my latest "Pun of a Kind" Meta!: 89. That's Not Right!
Laura M
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#70

Post by Laura M »

Regarding solo solves: Full disclosure, I had (I think) 48 solo solves last year which put me at a prizewinning level, but I had doubts and sent this email to Matt:
I've convinced myself that checking the comments on the xword-muggles forum still counts as solving solo (it can help me stop overcomplicating). One time I even posted a comment because I was waffling about submitting something that seemed iffy, and then followed the advice I got in a PM to keep looking because it should be a 100% click. That one, I really debated about whether to choose solo or not, but I decided I found the mechanism myself so it should count? Obviously I picked solo but I wasn't sure. So I'm happy to take your judgment on whether I deserve a solo solve prize.
And Matt responded with:
Let's go ahead and say this is a Bronze Medal win for 2020 since the parameters might not have been totally clear. Moving forward, though, I use the "raised eyebrow" rule for what constitutes help. Which is to say, even something so slight as a raised eyebrow from another solver counts as a group solve. Or as someone else put it: "If you have to ask, it's a group solve."
Which I totally understand and agree with, but now I feel kind of guilty and undeserving of a prize... Anyway, I've been trying for a higher standard this year, and I don't even check this forum anymore until after I submit an answer. If I'm working on it for a while, I might check the leaderboard to see how difficult it's playing and how many wrong answers were submitted, but actually I'm not sure I should do that either...?

The thing is, I don't even care about winning anything, but I just want to feel good about my solves. Maybe I would feel better if I checked "group solve" every time and didn't worry about what I looked at :-)
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DrTom
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#71

Post by DrTom »

MikeM000 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 2:12 pm
DrTom wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:52 pm
I LOVE me some spreadsheets and if you are looking for meaningless data you are talking to the king. I mean I used to track clinical interventions, just to see at the end of the year how many I had made. Then I got to categorizing them according to type, then disease state/system addressed, then subdividing according to time spent...NONE of this had any real affect or meaningful data concerning patient care, its just that, like potato chips, once I started I could not stop.
Ummm... don't you have people who do this for you?

Signed,
A guy who does data analysis & reporting for a team of clinical pharmacists, and has found over the past 25 years that doing this professionally keeps him from doing any of this type of stuff as a hobby.
Ah, don't I wish. When I started at my current hospital they had never even HAD a clinical pharmacist and I had to prove my worth and the worth of the staff I eventually hired. The spreadsheet helped but in time it became an entity unto itself. It would have been great to have a chronicler, but you know even when I was in the Michigan area (started a clinical pharmacy service in downriver Detroit) I did it myself - where were you when I needed you!!!! Still, glad to know someone is now doing these types of things.
NUDGES!I am always willing to give nudges where needed; metas should be about fun, not frustration. Send me what you have done so far because often you are closer than you think!
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SReh26
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#72

Post by SReh26 »

DrTom wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:52 pm
BarbaraK wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:01 pm
BarbaraK wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:47 pm
But that never made it into the FAQ, so anyone who signed up in the last 2.5 years didn't have any easy way to know that. So much as I love having another column in my spreadsheet to track the solos each week, I do wonder how meaningful it really is.
I can’t believe that I suggested that anything in or potentially in my meta spreadsheets might be meaningful and got no reaction. Are you all just humoring me?! Figure I’m too far gone to even be worth teasing about my nutty geekiness?

Well, in for a penny😉, in for a pound, so how about if I paraphrase that fount of wisdom, Mr. Ed:

A nudge is a nudge, of course, of course,
And no one is solo when nudged, of course,
Unless, of course, you have no chance of medaling anyway.

Because, as noted above, solo doesn’t affect anything except eligibility for year end prizes. (And data on meaningless spreadsheets:)
I LOVE me some spreadsheets and if you are looking for meaningless data you are talking to the king. I mean I used to track clinical interventions, just to see at the end of the year how many I had made. Then I got to categorizing them according to type, then disease state/system addressed, then subdividing according to time spent...NONE of this had any real affect or meaningful data concerning patient care, its just that, like potato chips, once I started I could not stop.

At least in your case people seem to ask for the data you have, in mine it was acknowledged and silently ignored for fear I would then be compelled to show someone else how to do it.

T

All nudges are a treat for me
If I can't solve it singly (sung sing el ly)
Ideas spreading out as they evolve
Keep al your ethics just gimme that meta solve
I‘m starting to feel better about my poetry! 😅 No offense.
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sharkicicles
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#73

Post by sharkicicles »

Hey, I had the same record as Joon this month!
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FrankieHeck
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#74

Post by FrankieHeck »

Here's the template I made that I was sure would lead me to the answer (after a day or two of trying to use an arithmetic-based approach). But I tried it every way possible, and none of them gave me 16 letters. Sat down to dinner the next day and saw the correct template, which was much less work.
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Joe Ross
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#75

Post by Joe Ross »

FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:00 pm Here's the template I made that I was sure would lead me to the answer (after a day or two of trying to use an arithmetic-based approach). But I tried it every way possible, and none of them gave me 16 letters. Sat down to dinner the next day and saw the correct template, which was much less work.
Image
True story:

My lab partner in HS chemistry & I sat on opposite sides of a lab bench, directly in front of the teacher's desk. During every multiple-choice exam, the teacher would create similar answer templates - for the exam we were taking - using a small drill press (not making that up). Our spatial awareness allowed us to correct most wrong answers. He also liked to talk to us during the exams, so eyeing his efforts was not only easy, but natural.

It didn't hurt me that my lab partner was vying for valedictorian, was captain of the football, basketball, and baseball teams: everybody's all-American. For him, a chemistry teacher was a friend, not someone to be feared. It taught me the value of befriending smarter people, hence why I haunt this place.
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Guffman
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#76

Post by Guffman »

FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:00 pm Here's the template I made that I was sure would lead me to the answer (after a day or two of trying to use an arithmetic-based approach). But I tried it every way possible, and none of them gave me 16 letters. Sat down to dinner the next day and saw the correct template, which was much less work.
I made the exact same template with the trusty X-acto knife I keep by my computer. Sorry I didn't save it for a photo. I also tried to make a number of coin-shaped pieces with 16 letters. After the better part of an evening I swept it all in the trash - and with it, my enthusiasm. Didn't want to spoil Matt's evening by telling him what I thought, but for me it was a meta best forgotten.
Laura M
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#77

Post by Laura M »

FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:00 pm Here's the template I made that I was sure would lead me to the answer (after a day or two of trying to use an arithmetic-based approach).
Ooh! Free meta concept: Computer punch cards! (The audience for that might be limited, though...)
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BarbaraK
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#78

Post by BarbaraK »

Laura M wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:21 pm
FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:00 pm Here's the template I made that I was sure would lead me to the answer (after a day or two of trying to use an arithmetic-based approach).
Ooh! Free meta concept: Computer punch cards! (The audience for that might be limited, though...)
I've thought about that one - wondered if there would be a way to have a 12 row tall grid where the black squares spell something. Can't see how to make it work though.
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Meg
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#79

Post by Meg »

Joe Ross wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:52 pm
FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:00 pm Here's the template I made that I was sure would lead me to the answer (after a day or two of trying to use an arithmetic-based approach). But I tried it every way possible, and none of them gave me 16 letters. Sat down to dinner the next day and saw the correct template, which was much less work.
Image
True story:

My lab partner in HS chemistry & I sat on opposite sides of a lab bench, directly in front of the teacher's desk. During every multiple-choice exam, the teacher would create similar answer templates - for the exam we were taking - using a small drill press (not making that up). Our spatial awareness allowed us to correct most wrong answers. He also liked to talk to us during the exams, so eyeing his efforts was not only easy, but natural.

It didn't hurt me that my lab partner was vying for valedictorian, was captain of the football, basketball, and baseball teams: everybody's all-American. For him, a chemistry teacher was a friend, not someone to be feared. It taught me the value of befriending smarter people, hence why I haunt this place.
@Joe Ross Are you talking about CHEATING?
Check out and support http://CrosswordsForCancer.com.
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boharr
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#80

Post by boharr »

Meg wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:39 pm
Joe Ross wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:52 pm
FrankieHeck wrote: Wed Jun 30, 2021 1:00 pm Here's the template I made that I was sure would lead me to the answer (after a day or two of trying to use an arithmetic-based approach). But I tried it every way possible, and none of them gave me 16 letters. Sat down to dinner the next day and saw the correct template, which was much less work.
Image
True story:

My lab partner in HS chemistry & I sat on opposite sides of a lab bench, directly in front of the teacher's desk. During every multiple-choice exam, the teacher would create similar answer templates - for the exam we were taking - using a small drill press (not making that up). Our spatial awareness allowed us to correct most wrong answers. He also liked to talk to us during the exams, so eyeing his efforts was not only easy, but natural.

It didn't hurt me that my lab partner was vying for valedictorian, was captain of the football, basketball, and baseball teams: everybody's all-American. For him, a chemistry teacher was a friend, not someone to be feared. It taught me the value of befriending smarter people, hence why I haunt this place.
@Joe Ross Are you talking about CHEATING?
I dunno. Seems more like NUDGING.
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