"Starting Positions" - August 20, 2021

A place to discuss the weekly Wall Street Journal Crossword Puzzle Contest, starting every Thursday around 4:00 p.m. Eastern time. Please do not post any answers or hints before the contest deadline which is midnight Sunday Eastern time.
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Joepickett
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#301

Post by Joepickett »

Joepickett wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:24 pm
Joepickett wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:21 pm I'll need a nudge on Sunday. I'm getting nowhere with this one.
I'm pretty sure that my meta skill is gradually getting worse.

Finished the grid and immediately noticed...nothing. Still the same hours later.
Even with a nudge I had the wrong answer. I saw NOTES. Didn't make sense but I stopped there. MOJO is gone! Back to Monday crosswords for me.
minimuggle
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#302

Post by minimuggle »

On the boat all weekend, but cheering all of you who solved it.
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Colin
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#303

Post by Colin »

Joe Ross wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:26 am
clueless_solver wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:23 am Maybe if I rewrote all of the clues in monospace font, it would be easier to parse.
This has helped me more than once, with credit going to @Dplass for suggesting the monospace font Consolas for the Excel forms.
I don’t always resort to the Excel forms but did this week. Very grateful for these, Joe - thank you! They help to illuminate the grid on tough metas. Trouble is, the grid is not where I should have been looking this week! It was like having NASA’s (or SpaceX’s) best flashlight in the world for my rocket ship journey to the Sun!
One world. One planet. One future.
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Deb F
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#304

Post by Deb F »

YIKES! I was quickly evicted from the beach at 12:01. I must admit, seeing the answer, that I could have spent the next week and not have gotten it. Heck, I barely understand the end of the solution. I saw the recurrence of words beginning with CA... and, putting that together with 31A--Dateline, thought AHA--circa....Then, when I saw 53A---Outerspace, i figured I should look for words beginning with CA that ended in or included (a stretch, I know, but it fit my hypothesis) a letter leading to a solution. I.e. CArP, CAbO, CarL, CAmEto, CArtS. Who's with me??? I figure it was Mike's diabolical way to send people like me down a rabbit hole from which I could not recover or accept there was another way.

Forgive me, Captain Bob, for making you add me when I did not earn my spot!

Have a good week, Muggles.
M and M
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#305

Post by M and M »

The classic meta path that went nowhere -

There were five sets of rhyming answers THAT CROSSED EACH OTHER.

Cargo Fargo
Feat Seat
Carts Darts
Sport Sort
and Carl Arles (I promise that's how you pronounce Arles)

Now, five (note that? five?) sets of accidental rhyming words would be... possible in a crossword, but five that cross each other? Nope, that's gotta be important. However, the letters yielded by that path were TAGLT. Well, they anagram to GLATT, which is a real, though obscure word, and while its primary meaning is pretty far off the title, the secondary meaning of consistency, smooth, etc. could be tortured into an answer.

This had two problems. MIke doesn't usually require anagramming, as his solutions are elegant and orderly. And he would rarely pick such an obscure word.

So... we went looking and found the definitions and submitted RACES on time and so this is not sour grapes, BUT... I just want to say,

Really Mike? Five sets of rhyming words that CROSS EACH OTHER?? And mean NOTHING??????
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Bird Lives
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#306

Post by Bird Lives »

I think — and I’m sure the people who went with SCARE will agree— that this is a pretty good example of a PAGEANT.

1. Complete the grid
2. Use standard methods that fit with the title (first letter of theme clues)
3. Use the standard method of reading these letters (top to bottom)
4. See that this answer relates to the title (SCARE = START)
5. Send in this answer
6. On Monday find out that a further step led to a better answer (less obvious and a closer fit with the title).
7. Smash the paper with the puzzle on it into a little ball and throw it across the room.
Jay
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MarkWoychick
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#307

Post by MarkWoychick »

mheberlingx100 wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:15 am I had submitted POLES. The last non-CAR letter of each of the CAR answers anagrammed to that. I really wasn’t in love with that answer but thought it fit the title as the starting position a car race. I thought I was just missing something to provide order of letters, when I was really down the entirety wrong rabbit hole.
Same here - I found the five CARS and followed the “race course” around the puzzle:
CARP
CARGO
CARL
ONECARE - I thought it was clever that the E came both before and after CAR so that it was at the end of the word if you were following the course
CARTS

I think POLES is actually a better answer based on the puzzle title - I’m sure that conviction will win me an imaginary mug this week!
Contest Crosswords Combating Cancer (CCCC) is a bundle of 16 contest-style (meta) crosswords that we've created to help raise money for cancer-related organizations - get the bundle at http://crosswordsforcancer.com
zach
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#308

Post by zach »

I’ll share what led me fairly quickly to the correct answer, and I hope this can help to guide others in the future.

I found the clue for “FARGO” (36-across) to be very oddly worded. For Mike to write “Significant eastern city of North Dakota” instead of “Most populous city in North Dakota” was a dead giveaway to me that something was intentionally unusual about this clue and answer. It took me just a second (pun intended) to incorporate “Starting Positions” into the clue to work my way toward the mechanism. Always look for strange clues! You never know where the mechanism is hiding.
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Joe Ross
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#309

Post by Joe Ross »

mntlblok wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:49 am
Joe Ross wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:26 am
clueless_solver wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:23 am Maybe if I rewrote all of the clues in monospace font, it would be easier to parse.
This has helped me more than once, with credit going to @Dplass for suggesting the monospace font Consolas for the Excel forms.
I don't see where that capitalizes each word. Is there a value to it that I should be seeing?
There's no need to capitalize, but having every character at the same width helps to see vertical inferences, much like in a crossword grid. To your point, listing in all caps can't hurt.

When clunky clues are given, it is a clever idea to list them one word per line, in monospace.

If solving on paper, use quadrille paper or self-space your lettering.
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mntlblok
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#310

Post by mntlblok »

Colin wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:12 am
Joe Ross wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:26 am
clueless_solver wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:23 am Maybe if I rewrote all of the clues in monospace font, it would be easier to parse.
This has helped me more than once, with credit going to @Dplass for suggesting the monospace font Consolas for the Excel forms.
I don’t always resort to the Excel forms but did this week. Very grateful for these, Joe - thank you! They help to illuminate the grid on tough metas. Trouble is, the grid is not where I should have been looking this week! It was like having NASA’s (or SpaceX’s) best flashlight in the world for my rocket ship journey to the Sun!
Ahhh. Sounds like it's something known as a "form" that supplies the assistance. Shall go read up on same.
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Joe Ross
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#311

Post by Joe Ross »

Colin wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:12 am
Joe Ross wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:26 am
clueless_solver wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:23 am Maybe if I rewrote all of the clues in monospace font, it would be easier to parse.
This has helped me more than once, with credit going to @Dplass for suggesting the monospace font Consolas for the Excel forms.
I don’t always resort to the Excel forms but did this week. Very grateful for these, Joe - thank you! They help to illuminate the grid on tough metas. Trouble is, the grid is not where I should have been looking this week! It was like having NASA’s (or SpaceX’s) best flashlight in the world for my rocket ship journey to the Sun!
This is my reason for switching to a grid-filled PDF to solve this week's puzzle.

The PDF is on the Excel sheet at every other puzzle, but it can be more convenient to work on the PDF, itself. I have Adobe Acrobat Pro. I don't know if Acrobat Reader allows for highlighting and adding text.
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whimsy
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#312

Post by whimsy »

Yes, I sensed something strange about some of the clues mentioned but did not look closely enough at them for a couple of reasons, "Firstly", I was confidently using DATELINE and ATELIERS instead of COCONUT and ROMULAN, and "secondly", I had latched onto the thought of needing to put a preposition (Pre-Positions = Starting Positions) in front of the start of each themer -- UNDERFOOT, UPDATE, BYFAR, OVERATE, and WITHOUT. You can see where that got me. :)
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Kas
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#313

Post by Kas »

Verdict: KAS 5.

And the jury adds: "PLLLBBBBTTTT." (LOL!)
kimberlysg
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#314

Post by kimberlysg »

Congrats to all who solved this one! I kept going back all weekend and following many rabbit trails but knew I was getting absolutely nowhere. I can't believe the average difficulty rating is only a 4--you guys are really, REALLY smart!!
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Scott M
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#315

Post by Scott M »

Genius. As in anyone who got it. You ALL deserve a mug!
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect.
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BarbaraK
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#316

Post by BarbaraK »

I've long noticed that crosswords often have nearby/crossing entries that rhyme or are otherwise just one letter apart. I assume that's the nature of the English language - patterns of letters just go together, and putting then in a grid leaves rhymes. But it's still hard to ignore in a meta, especially when it's right there in the center.

I've got my fingers crossed for WSJ that the randomly selected email had RACES so they don't have to decide whether to accept SCARE.
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RPardoe
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#317

Post by RPardoe »

Scott M wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:10 am Genius. As in anyone who got it. You ALL deserve a mug!
If only Oprah were awarding the mugs . . .
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Abide
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#318

Post by Abide »

After the last two Shenks (e.g. and Three Little Words) where it took me at least two days (especially e.g.) this time I went straight to the clues and had both RACES and SCARE within 15 minutes. "Starting Positions" being a basic cryptic clue indicator helped a lot.

Of course RACES fits the title better than SCARE but the prompt only asked for a five-letter word.

If you are feeling low, here's a puzzle that may cheer you up:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=1151
Last edited by Abide on Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Flying_Burrito
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#319

Post by Flying_Burrito »

I noticed at the onset the oddity of the descriptions for 36A and 44A; 48D was odd too (there is only one Nassib in the NFL, so why go through the "openly gay" extra step) which I later attributed to Mike chumming up the waters for sharks (not rabbits) to prevent us from leaving the ship. The reference to racing was very obvious as well (I did spend time trying to work out a logic where 28D "ONE CAR" could be worked on a mechanism with 53A ("OUTER SPACE" where you only use the last 4 letters and you combine the 2 for PACE CAR, which is indeed only one car) or same for the other big trap (DATE LINE becoming FINISH LINE). But the biggest shark ("that's a 20 footer", "25, 3 tons of them...") to me came from the waterfall approach (my mind was subconsciously still on Thursday's crossword) that went "START CAR GO" (right before 18D and through 33A).
I have to thank my nagging wife for putting me on a dinner deadline and forcing me to go back to my initial hunch on the descriptors. Once 44A and 36A became "first" and "second" the rest came together quickly and never thought that "scare" would work due to all racing references.
Sharing below one of the most iconic movie scenes of all times which I could recite by heart (thank you Robert Shaw, Roy Scheider aka Mike Shenk in this one, and Richard Dreyfuss).

Senor Guaca Mole :mrgreen:
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TeaJenny
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#320

Post by TeaJenny »

clueless_solver wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 12:23 am I usually forget about the clues once I solve, guess I will have to add this to my toolkit. Maybe if I rewrote all of the clues in monospace font, it would be easier to parse. I prefer my mechanism with the 5 cars, I took the last letter of the remaining bit of the word (after removing CAR) and got POLES, as in pole position.

The double letters (both with the grid and diagonally) were driving me insane, especially FOOTSTOOLS. I also can't believe that it DID end up involving the long ones, but not the right long ones. ATELIERS and DATELINE steered me so wrong that I gave up completely. Once my mechanisms started including OBOE I knew I was a goner because there was no way it would include a crossword word like that.

The cluster in the middle also reminded me of that ladder puzzle from a few weeks back, FARGO CARGO ? CARTS DARTS.
I did the exact same thing with the CAR answers and came up with SLOPE. CAR race tracks have a SLOPE, and there's a car racing game called SLOPE CAR (thanks, Google).

I also thought there was something going on with the middle cluster and misidentified DATELINE and ATELIERS as theme clues.

Endless rabbit holes:

- 5 CARS (CARL, CARP, ONE CAR, CARTS, CARGO)

- CARS - FIAT, DART, USED, SPORT, PACE (from OUTER SPACE, crosses CARL), RACE (from ONE CAR spelled backwards)

- 5 creative ways to spell CARGO in the middle cluster

- 5 F's in the grid

- Several diagonal letter runs (EEE, AAAA, etc.)

- Lots of O's in the top half of the grid

- 7 answers that differed by only one letter (SLAB/SLAT, CARP/CARL, FIAT/FEAT etc.)

- ONE CAR = FIAT, YEAR = 1983, SPORT - 1983 Fiat Spider? Nice car; bad rabbit hole.

- 4 clues at the middle of each side looked promising: LOOP/POOL spelled backwards; EMIT/TIME spelled backwards; STEP = swimming? But what about FIAT? And where's the fifth letter?

- 4 10-letter answers

- 6 answers with EA groupings (YEAGER, DEAD SEA, etc.)

- Several clues with foreign words

- Multiple answers that are places to start and/or incremental units that can be counted (SLAT, YEAR, SEAT, STEP, TIER)

Definitely a KAS 5 for me. There's always next week.
Last edited by TeaJenny on Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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