XWord Muggles Forum

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:17 am**

Neon = Car & Gas was pretty obvious.
Took me a second or third look to realize that all of the pairings crossed each other.
Then it was obvious.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:21 am**

Saw CAR/GAS when I first filled the grid, but did it in fits and starts so didn’t see the rest right away. Then when I finally got around to looking at the meta for real I wasted about an hour trying to decode the long acrosses and put it down again. Finally, wih about 30 min to go I took one more look to see if there were any other pairs, and found about half before I noticed they were all flagged by e.g. After that it was quick.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:24 am**

escapeartist wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:45 am Thankfully I was able to solve this meta with the help of a self-correcting rule I gave myself 6 months-or-so ago.

I'll share the tip after the solution drop sunday night - it should be something every meta solver considers when their eyes start crossing.

(and not from the strong drinks Isaac is mixing )

"Rule: When you don't see anything in the grid after 30 minutes or so - look back at the clues for any sort of a hint"

(I love the comment someone made recently about cryptics that they have rules - but metas don't)

One thing metas often do is incorporate the clues to lead to the solution. Sometimes it's asterisks or parenthesis (which are obvious hints) but also many times it's a pattern like this to lead to the answer.

7 clues were "BLANK e.g." - the answer was a 7 letter word. Huge hint.

I know veteran meta solvers know this, but us noobs need all the help we can get.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:26 am**

Here is the definition of PARAGON that I chose to convince me I was submitting the correct answer:

Paragon: verb
Definition of paragon
transitive verb
1: to compare with : PARALLEL
2: to put in rivalry : MATCH

I ended up in a bind at one point over what I hope was an unintended herring. For 61A the clue was pool division and 50D (which was an intersecting answer) was Bud's place. Turns out there was an Olympic swimmer (so quite topical) named Bud Spencer who quite likely would have had a place in the pool lane. With it I got PARAGOEN which thankfully was not a word, nor was PARAGOE, but darn it it followed the mechanism pretty closely. The final determinant was that it did NOT have an e.g. which all of the others did. I'm guessing Mike never even saw that "twofer".

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:29 am**

Very nice. I got the theme late this afternoon, but I had other things to do and just ran out of time. I had 4/7 crosses done but didn't find/finish the ones on the left. I submitted DIRTBAG, which I chuckled at when I saw it in some earlier jibberish. I hope nobody takes it personal

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:32 am**

I guess it is now safe to repost my poetic nudge in full. I enjoyed the construction this week for the way the key clues left me feeling something was missing even after I found an answer that fit. The solution came with a very satisfying aha moment. So here is my tribute to Mike and his exemplary puzzle.

If you make it ashore before curfew
You’ll get stronger if it doesn’t hurt you
Or thusly spake Nietzsche,
The epitome (e.g.)
Of knowledge but surely not virtue.

And before anyone wants to critique my quote by mentioning the distinction between hurt, maim and kill; I must say that my license to rhyme is in order.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:10 am**

The first answer I filled in the grid was PGA, but I got distracted and wrote it in 1-across instead of 1-down. Soon afterwards, I put GAS in 2-down for Neon. When I noticed my mistake, I realized that I had stumbled onto the meta mechanism because Neon was a two-for-one clue.

The lesson here is that if you screw something up but it worked pretty well, don't discard it without taking another look.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:13 am**

I am not sure how to rate this one.

On one hand I marvel as usual at the construction. Way beyond anything I could hope to do.

However the ones I like the best are those that when I finish the grid I see nothing and then find a few things that lead no where and then "A HA"

in this one Mantle was a Yankee, neon was a gas and a car. I was onto it before I finished the grid.

Rare for me. Maybe just lucky. Many a week I have been totally stumped and read posts about how easy it was for others.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:15 am**

Yeah.... Well I did 2 down I knew it had to be GAS. But then when I did ARTHUR DENT I knew I had to be wrong (and second guess was car). And then when the blather clue was GAS, which was a *BETTER* answer than the actual answer for 2 down, I knew that *had* to be the mechanism. And I hadn't even really gotten started.

I did the grid without much problem[*] but not really worrying about the meta. Once done, and turning my attention to the meta I knew I had to find some more clues that had bad real answer but *better* answers nearby. I wasn't sure *where* to look but 62A seemed like a clue with a not very good answer, (BAND as an answer to QUEEN) a I figured it was a good candidate for a second place to look for a better answer.

In this case "Woman" wasn't a *better* answer but it was acceptable answer. But then I noticed that but 2d and 62A were of the form "X e.g." and that there were 7 such clues. And the rest came immediately.

I found the whole thing very relaxing.

I'm a bit surprised the reaction was so varied.

I suppose if I hadn't notice the e.g. I'd probably never found any of the other 5 examples, it did turn out the CAR/GAS was the only place where the other answer was *better* or obvious. And 62A was the only one where the answer seemed off. But with two KEY spots it was enough to see the "e.g". And then find the other 5.

[*]. I thought there might another british composer named Thomas but didn't worry about it much.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:08 am**

Here's the way my brain works:

Some long answers:
ARTHURDENT
SETAGOODEXAMPLE
THEMODERNS

Answers with double letters (two for...):
TALLIS
YANKEE
SETAGOODEXAMPLE
EEL
FOOTNOTE
REEVES
SST
TUTTE
PARSEE
REEDS

Makes:
LEOEOETEE

These look related:
CARD
ACE
QUEEN
GAME
HEARTS

TWO FOR ONE is a DEAL ... dealing cards?

Answers that spell something when reversed:
GAS / SAG
TAO / OAT
EPA / APE
EEL / LEE
ORB / BRO
RIS / SIR
LIAR / RAIL
ADOS / SODA

Answers that start with RE-
README
REBAGS
REEVES
REEDS
RED

Answers with homophones:
TALLIS / TALUS
GOLEM / GOLLUM

Answers that contain another word in reverse:
REEVES / VEER
THEMODERNS / DOME
MIRA / RIM
TALLIS / SILL
SADIRONS / RID, ORIDA missing E
SETAGOODEXAMPLE / GATE, MAX, MAXED
REBAGS / GAB
GOLEM / LOG
ORGANS / NAG

Answers that contain ART:
ARTHURDENT
CARTER
ART

Answers that have something to do with golf:
PGA
ELS
(SAD)IRONS
PAR(SEE)
(RE)BAG(S)

Answers that contain one or more words forward:
REEVES / EVE
THEMODERNS / THE, THEM, HEM, EMO, MOD, MODE, DERN (Laura/Bruce)

TWO FOR ONE: split, deal, bargain

ADOS is ADIOS minus an I, or SODA backwards

REEVES kinda looks like REVERSE

ARTHUR and CARTER were presidents
CARD, remove CAR and insert FOR to get FORD
S E T, a good example. Are we looking for sets of things? (n.b. the word S E T without spaces causes the bbcode editor to crash.)

ARTHUR DENT -> FORD PREFECT
CARTER -> FORD

SADIRONS = SONARS + ID
THE MODERNS = SEND MOTHER

OBOISTS almost contains BOISE, and
IHADTO contains an anagrammed IDAHO

EAU cues "Oh!": OHIO, OBOISTS, OBERON; somewhat ORGANS, OLDER, OREIDA

New York state:
OREIDA is one away from ONEIDA
SADIRONS ... ADIRONDACKS
YANKEE

Colors
RED
GENRE - GREEN

Lord of the Rings characters:
GOLEM (GOLLUM)
STRIDEX - STRIDER

Change one letter:
PARSEE - PARSEC

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:39 am**

Please tell me that I am not the only person who got the answer but used a COMPLETELY different mechanism.

To wit:

If you take the main answer "SET A GOOD EXAMPLE" two letters at a time, you can find each letter pair in a single answer elsewhere in the grid:

Code: Select all

   atSEa
     TAllis
     GOlem
 themODerns
stridEX
    gAMe
     PLea

(ignoring the fifteenth letter 'E'). If you then rearrange the answers in grid order, the answers contain the answer:

PLEA
TALLIS
STRIDEX
ATSEA
GAME
GOLEM
THEMODERNS

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:38 am**

Interesting when correcting mistakes is helpful. My path started with entering PLEA at 4A (Innocent). The change to POPE because 6D was PLEA was a hint to the mechanism. What pushed me along the path was Queen, Ace and Hearts, then noticing there were seven “e.g.” clues. But even after establishing the pairs, I struggled to see the intersecting letters. This is where Joe Ross’s spreadsheet would have excelled (pun intended) in showing the obvious. Great meta!

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:35 am**

As one who goes back and forth between across and down clues when solving, I noticed the ambiguous answers quickly since the alternatives were right there. I’m guessing that those who look at all acrosses then all downs had a harder time spotting them.

I thought this was very clever - two answers for one clue as the theme and the two answers one shared letter to spell the meta answer. I wonder if Mike came across something like this while solving another puzzle and realized he could make a bunch of them be a meta.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:50 am**

I did not see how the title related to either the answer or the mechanism except that you got two entries for one clue. Then Al Sisti pointed out to me that in crossword clues, e.g. is often replaced by "for one."

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:51 am**

For a while I tried 7 letter second answers outside of the puzzle for the e.g. clues, i.e. pontiff for Pope, etc. Good result for some of the clues, but a bit forced for others, of course the various combinations generated gibberish. Eventually I recovered and made it ashore anyway but now I know the meaning of “pelisse”

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:36 am**

BarbaraK wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:35 am As one who goes back and forth between across and down clues when solving, I noticed the ambiguous answers quickly since the alternatives were right there. I’m guessing that those who look at all acrosses then all downs had a harder time spotting them.

I thought this was very clever - two answers for one clue as the theme and the two answers one shared letter to spell the meta answer. I wonder if Mike came across something like this while solving another puzzle and realized he could make a bunch of them be a meta.

Barbara
I do the acrosss and then the downs and back and forth. When I started running into the e.g.s very close in the downs that made me suspicious. When I saw Mantle, after I had gotten Yankee at 26A, that was the real indicator. After that it was a couple of brief rabbit holes and then I noticed that I had highlighted the answers in yellow and the alternate answers in orange. When I saw that they all crossed it was game, set and match (haven't we seen that a few weeks ago?)

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:37 am**

Mister Squawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:39 am Please tell me that I am not the only person who got the answer but used a COMPLETELY different mechanism.

To wit:

If you take the main answer "SET A GOOD EXAMPLE" two letters at a time, you can find each letter pair in a single answer elsewhere in the grid:
Code: Select all
   atSEa
     TAllis
     GOlem
 themODerns
stridEX
    gAMe
     PLea
(ignoring the fifteenth letter 'E'). If you then rearrange the answers in grid order, the answers contain the answer:

PLEA
TALLIS
STRIDEX
ATSEA
GAME
GOLEM
THEMODERNS

Wow.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:38 am**

I never made it out of the starting blocks on this one - - completed the grid in fits and starts, and never made the connections. As usual, feeling like this one should have jumped out at me. I tried to figure out what the title might mean, and actually considered that it meant two grid answers for one clue - - so I think that makes me doubly blind. Oh well, Isaac and I are BFF's now.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:43 am**

Mister Squawk wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:39 am Please tell me that I am not the only person who got the answer but used a COMPLETELY different mechanism.

To wit:

If you take the main answer "SET A GOOD EXAMPLE" two letters at a time, you can find each letter pair in a single answer elsewhere in the grid:
Code: Select all
   atSEa
     TAllis
     GOlem
 themODerns
stridEX
    gAMe
     PLea
(ignoring the fifteenth letter 'E'). If you then rearrange the answers in grid order, the answers contain the answer:

PLEA
TALLIS
STRIDEX
ATSEA
GAME
GOLEM
THEMODERNS

I second Hunter X's WOW. This so looks like something I would do. I didn't but I have arrived at answers in an odd ways before. This however is a paragon of creativity.

Posted: **Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:48 am**

DrTom wrote: ↑Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:26 am Here is the definition of PARAGON that I chose to convince me I was submitting the correct answer:

Paragon: verb
Definition of paragon
transitive verb
1: to compare with : PARALLEL
2: to put in rivalry : MATCH

I ended up in a bind at one point over what I hope was an unintended herring. For 61A the clue was pool division and 50D (which was an intersecting answer) was Bud's place. Turns out there was an Olympic swimmer (so quite topical) named Bud Spencer who quite likely would have had a place in the pool lane. With it I got PARAGOEN which thankfully was not a word, nor was PARAGOE, but darn it it followed the mechanism pretty closely. The final determinant was that it did NOT have an e.g. which all of the others did. I'm guessing Mike never even saw that "twofer".

Thanks for the flashback Dr Tom, I grew up watching Bud Spencer/Terence Hill movies who had quite a following in Italy. Pedersoli (aka Bud Spencer) was indeed a good swimmer and went to 2 Olympics in the 50s.

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