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Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:28 pm
by boharr
sanmilton wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:14 pm
Finally, can we agree that this was beyond three stars on the difficulty scale? I mean, only some 533 Earthlings in the universe submitted correct solutions, and the puzzle stumped at least three of the constellation of Muggles stars! :shock:
When I went to rate the puzzle, it told me I already had. Perhaps I hit the button inadvertently, but I don't think so. I would have rated it higher that 3.5.

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:08 pm
by HunterX
JRS51 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:26 pm I also wondered whether ABBA was a hint, as in point A to point B and back to point A. So I started looking for islands or destinations midway between the two cities, but of course that was a dead end.
I figured 1A "SML" was a hint that the different sizes of the bodies of water was important. After the fact, I took it as a hint to look for 3-letter answers, of which there were a lot in the grid.

My daughter pointed out that 43A "From ___ Z" ("A TO") was a hint that you needed to use just single letters, though it's a bit of a red herring in that it implies you use the first letters of the cities.

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:21 pm
by mikeB
This week was a toughie, but per the cliché, the process of solving a meta (or trying to) is a journey. Beyond that, seeking to solve a succession of metas is itself a journey (or perhaps a meta-journey?). Each successful or unsuccessful attempt adjusts one’s methodology. Another cliché: more often than not, the solver needs to “think outside the box” to get to the solution. However, for a relative newbie like me, the reward of a toughie like this week’s is actually s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g the boundaries of my box. (I doubt I’ll ever look at a 3-letter answer the same again.) We each get to take these successive improvements along on our journey through future meta challenges. I, too, was stuck in ROCLS Purgatory until my perseverance expired; however, I am buoyed by the fact that when I began my meta-journey 8 months ago, I wouldn’t have gotten within a mile of ROCLS. That’s progress.

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:54 pm
by mntlblok
Looks like Juniper. :-)

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:18 pm
by mntlblok
tigerfly222 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:24 pm On the beach, finally.
I jumped out of the boat I was paddling and @boharr threw me a life preserver from the shore.
Sometimes it takes a village.

Edit: Nothing to do with the meta, just wanted to say that here in Spain, we are finally speeding up Covid vaccinations nicely. Yesterday I got my first jab! Happy to be doing my part.
Congrats for Jon Rahm!

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:22 pm
by mntlblok
CPJohnson wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:49 pm
stmv wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:40 am Ugh, I got a late start due to visiting family, but even so this took me *way* much longer than it should have. I saw 90% of it very fast, and was treading water within sight of the beach, but I just could not close the deal. Then suddenly while brushing my teeth it hit me, that I had overlooked a common mechanism, and I was even able to guess what the answer was going to be before I worked out the details. Better late than never, and now I'm 100% on the beach, exhausted but pleased.
I don't think the mechanism is all that common. Maybe it is if you do LOTS of metas.
Might there be a list if mechanisms extant??

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:57 pm
by mntlblok
mntlblok wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:54 pm Looks like Juniper. :-)
Guess that post didn't make it clear that I was referring to the view from behind the golfer in the "thumbnail - the 6th at Augusta National. :-)

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:59 pm
by SReh26
mntlblok wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:22 pm
CPJohnson wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:49 pm
stmv wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:40 am Ugh, I got a late start due to visiting family, but even so this took me *way* much longer than it should have. I saw 90% of it very fast, and was treading water within sight of the beach, but I just could not close the deal. Then suddenly while brushing my teeth it hit me, that I had overlooked a common mechanism, and I was even able to guess what the answer was going to be before I worked out the details. Better late than never, and now I'm 100% on the beach, exhausted but pleased.
I don't think the mechanism is all that common. Maybe it is if you do LOTS of metas.
Might there be a list if mechanisms extant??
yes- under Come Aboard! Meta Solving etc.

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:03 pm
by mntlblok
Ergcat wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:56 am
sanmilton wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:16 am Mr Gaffney usually puts a “hint” in the SE corner grid spot. In this puzzle it is 66a LEM.
*Now* they tell me!!

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:13 pm
by CPJohnson
mntlblok wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:22 pm
CPJohnson wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 2:49 pm
stmv wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:40 am Ugh, I got a late start due to visiting family, but even so this took me *way* much longer than it should have. I saw 90% of it very fast, and was treading water within sight of the beach, but I just could not close the deal. Then suddenly while brushing my teeth it hit me, that I had overlooked a common mechanism, and I was even able to guess what the answer was going to be before I worked out the details. Better late than never, and now I'm 100% on the beach, exhausted but pleased.
I don't think the mechanism is all that common. Maybe it is if you do LOTS of metas.
Might there be a list if mechanisms extant??
Only my personal list, as far as I know. I haven't fully explored all the posts in the Come Aboard/FAQs/Hints for Solving section. Here are some of the entries in my list:
Complete the theme (or a set)
* in clues
(1,2,3, etc.) Some variation of numbers in parentheses after some clues
Center grid word or some other grid word is a clue
Commonality in theme answers
Hidden words in theme answers
[First or last] [words or syllables] of theme answers
Parts of meta are positional in grid
Something similar in many clues
meaningful words all over the grid
Change one letter or drop one letter or add one letter
Anagramming needed
Meaningful words cross each other in grid, leading to meta answer
"Sounds like"
Missing things

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:20 pm
by CPJohnson
Here was my first attempt at an answer: R(hine), E(rie), M(ichigan), A(lgerian), P(acific). REMAP! It requires using the Algerian Sea instead of the Mediterranean, and it requires anagramming. Meta Daughter said, "I am not inclined to agree with your rationale on the meta." I had to admit that I didn't like it, either.

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:40 pm
by mntlblok
hcbirker wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 9:58 am After finding all the different bodies of water, I saw "Panama" spaced out at 22 Across, and thought for sure I was on to something. Then found "Seine" at 16 across. So I deduced that I had to find another ocean, sea and lake. Nothing. But I just couldn't stop looking at those bright shiny objects. Making the leap to the three letter clues didn't fit the theme for me. Oh well. On to the next puzzle!
And I could list twelve or fifteen *other* such finds for throwing one off. Grrr. . . .

Reminds me of translating Latin when each word you looked up had several possible meanings. (Mrs. Thacker didn't appreciate it when I decided to teach her a lesson and combine all the least likely definitions). :-) Apian Way was as close as I got to one of the cities. My notes included a list of cities that "started" some of the answer words - Basel and Bonn (noted but not jotted) - which I noticed but didn't "click" for its relationship to Basel. Duh. Even wrote down Calgary and Racine, but the leftover "s"s threw me. Apia? Oran? Gary but not Calgary? Maybe this ain't the place for me. . .

So, the "three letter words". Is there some convention for all of them landing within some bit of real estate?? Only "some" three letter words, "special" three letter words? Do four letter words ever constitute some portion of a mechanism??

I feel better, now. :-)

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:45 pm
by mntlblok
hcbirker wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:00 am And did anyone else research types and names of sails? That took me down some interesting holes.
We actually saw some big, ocean racing boats heading south off the coast a few weeks back. Nautical daughter - who is currently sewing sails in Wilmington, NC - informed me that the huge, front sails on them that seemed a cross (to me) of a spinnaker and a jib, was, in fact, a GENOA. :-)

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:47 pm
by mntlblok
Notbitter wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:01 am Okay, way off. In my “twisted” reasoning, I saw the title, “A Sail of Two Cities,” and assumed a play on words with “A Tale of Two Cites” by Dickens. I had each of the two cities. The distances from Google apparently were direct line distances, not the distance if you were to take the meandering course, for example from Basel to Bonn by sailing the Rhine. Thus, the distances were “as the crow flies,” which is an idiom from “Oliver Twist,” another Dickens story….from there, I had nothing, so I just tossed in “idiom” as my Hail Mary. Oh well…congratulations to those who got the final steps that I missed.
Yep, no luck sailing the English Channel. :-(

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:58 pm
by mntlblok
HunterX wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:07 am Before I finally figured out the correct second step, I got caught up in the "Find an anagram of the [word] in other clues with one letter extra/off" rabbit hole. I noticed that there are anagrams of 'SEA' and 'LAKE' with one letter to change, and 3 for 'OCEAN'. Kept searching for 'CANAL' and 'RIVER' until my eyes went blurry.

Then tried looking for alternate bodies of water for each of the types. 'APIAN ANTICLIMAX' kept making me see 'ATLANTIC' as well as a broken up 'PANAMA'.

Also found the SE(L)INE river, NILE backwards, Lake (Loch) NESS.... And so much more.

One can expect these things to go to those kinds of bizarre lengths???

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:05 pm
by mntlblok
hoover wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:44 pm Looking at the answer and how it was obtained ... I had all of the cities correct, and I had gone as far as writing out the body of water that connected each, but didn't get to step 3 of finding their initials in the 3LW. Even if I had, I may not have gotten to the answer because I had Mohawk River connecting Utica and Rome.

Rabbit holes:
- I tried playing with the directions (N, E, NW, NNW, NE) and that went nowhere.
- I found a sort of a word ladder in SCARFS SCARES SCALES SCALP (missing its S)
Damn! My head's gonna explode.

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:11 pm
by mntlblok
Ergcat wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:51 pm
rosiegirl wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:50 am
MikeMillerwsj wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:20 am This contest was a Matt Gaffney special, taking solvers down an elegantly tangled trail with several
I guess no one came up with my answer....WINDY...which I was sure was correct until I was told otherwise?
Yes, I had thought WINDY at first. I saw RWR and thought the “w” replaced a “v” in “River” abbrev. then saw “yea” and thought that’s one letter off from “sea”. Next came “Cal” and that’s one letter off from “can” short for canal! So I had w - n -y. I thought had to be “windy” that fits with sailing. But then I couldn’t find the I or D.... but I did see the real path as I was investigating “LEM”!!
And *more* head explosions.

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:14 pm
by mntlblok
Bob cruise director wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:53 pm A quick note which will be posted a couple of places here. Tomorrow Matt will be sending over one of his early MGWCC that we can all do as a discussion topic for June 29
Public service announcement for any other thick-headed newbies. Matt Gaffney's Weekly Crossword Contest (MGWCC) (Google worked).

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:20 pm
by mntlblok
SReh26 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:27 pm To some nudgees I mentioned a yen for Chinese food, since PAO was my aha moment.

This may have been too subtle of a nudge for some and or caused a sudden steep decline in my credibility with them. 🍚🥟🥡🥢

However I consider myself redeemed
Not a fancy eater so didn't remember that dish's name. Sadly also figgered "treats" could be "scores". :-) WOTER might not've worked. :-) Oh, and poo sorta rhymes with fu. :-)

Re: "A Sail of Two Cities" - June 18, 2021

Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:25 pm
by SReh26
mntlblok wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:20 pm
SReh26 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 2:27 pm To some nudgees I mentioned a yen for Chinese food, since PAO was my aha moment.

This may have been too subtle of a nudge for some and or caused a sudden steep decline in my credibility with them. 🍚🥟🥡🥢

However I consider myself redeemed
Not a fancy eater so didn't remember that dish's name. Sadly also figgered "treats" could be "scores". :-) WOTER might not've worked. :-) Oh, and poo sorta rhymes with fu. :-)
You are catching on quickly! Much quicker than I did btw.

The above is exactly the sort of -reasoning- that makes sense in this Alice in Wonderland illogical metaverse we have energized into.

One more thing— there’s no escape, ah ha ha...!
(Ive tried)