XWord Muggles Forum

Very weak and poorly witten and composed by Matt Gaffney. It doesn't account for the initials "U.S." in the meta clue. If a person maintains that the initials are acounted for in "ANY", then they have to allow that "Albany" is in the grid.

"J" as "a U.S. capital that should be in the grid, but isn't" works as well, if not better. Yes, there is a problem with clue words "should be", but that problem is no worse than Gaffney's error.

Still don't get it. Why is Albany the answer?

Belle wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 4:23 pm Still don't get it. Why is Albany the answer?

If you take Fort Collins and add the first letter of the state you get FCC which is the answer for 23D
Similarly
San Antonio Texas (SAT) is the answer for 47D
Asheville NC (ANC) is the answer for 62D
Providence Rhode Island (PRI) is the answer for 8D
and Grand Island Nebraska (GIN) is the answer for 65A

So what state capital with the state name shows up as a three letter answer in the grid. The only possabilitity is 16A which is Any and the capital is Albany New York.

Ok Thanks. Did anyone else find that all five cities in the grid, Fort Collins, San Antonio, Asheville, Providence, and Grand Island, are also located in Florida. Was sure that the answer was Tallahassee. Equally good, I think.

Abide wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 8:33 am Bird, it remains elegant because with the symmetric Albany there are three with (1 2, 3) and three with (1, 2 3).

Hats off to symmetry. But what I find inelegant is the use of a single initial to identify a state, or a city for that matter. Nobody does that. The Big Easy is not NOL. Hard-Hearted Hannah is not the vamp of Savannah, G.

In the gentlest, most tactful way possible, I would discourage solvers from making up rules about what a meta puzzle can have or not have and then accusing the constructor of breaking them. As far as I know there is no rule book.

Got it, Meg.

Don't follow crossword conventions when solving metas. Read the minds of meta-makers, when their clues might be considered by even the most casual observer to be outside the norm. There are no mistakes made by meta-makers. Do not point out inconsistencies. Do not provide feedback.

I was going to post that, per norms, "ALBANY" is a "United States state capital", but not "a U.S. state capital", and also email that to the meta-maker via the puzzle's publisher, since I did feel it' could be valuable feedback.

I see that Mike said 8 persons listed "Richmond" (including us). This was why we did. In seeing the five cities on a map,(the word "map" included in 6 across) one can draw a straight line from Fort Collins through Grand Island to Providence. (a series of 3, the 3 pointers clue for 23 across) If one then draws a line from San Antonio to Asheville and extends the line it goes right to Richmond with Richmond being the 3rd in the series. So we thought it should have been in the grid but was not.

Joe Ross wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 6:33 pm Got it, Meg.

Don't follow crossword conventions when solving metas. Read the minds of meta-makers, when their clues might be considered by even the most casual observer to be outside the norm. There are no mistakes made by meta-makers. Do not point out inconsistencies. Do not provide feedback.

I was going to post that, per norms, "ALBANY" is a "United States state capital", but not "a U.S. state capital", and also email that to the meta-maker via the puzzle's publisher, since I did feel it' could be valuable feedback.

Joe,
Clearly, I should have listened to that little voice in my head that told me not to post my previous message.

I didn't get this one, and I doubt that I would have. I'm still not clear as to what the title had to do with it.

BarbaraK wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 6:51 am

Thurman8er wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 10:49 pm Just over an hour to go. Still LAS.

So you got the MGWCC week 4 right away but never saw this one? Not sure if that should make me optimistic about my prospects for MGWCC or just marvel at how differently all our brains work.

I kind of lucked into this one. Pondering the theme answers and the grid,I thought, isn’t a gin collins some kind of drink. No, it’s not, but that kept gin in mind a moment later as I saw the initials.

I thought it was going to be a slog to find the missing one and was deciding whether to look at a list of capitals or at all the three letter entries when I noticed that the three letter abbreviations were all symmetric and there matching GIN was ANY. That bit of elegance made the last step easy. And that’s why the instructions say not just that it could be in the grid but that it should be there.

I always find it fascinating how different brains work in solving different puzzles. But I should mention that I am horrible at anything having to do with geography. I wonder if that makes me not try as hard...?

I was going to guess Albany due to many A-L-B combos in the grid. Alas, I didn’t because I was distracted by the prevalence of 2-letter state abbreviations in the grid that couldn’t be a coincidence in my mind. VT in IVTUBE suggested it was important to have VT in the grid, as well as PA in that stupid word OOMPAH, but it didn’t pan out. Yet I was highlighting every across/down/diagonal state abbreviation I could find. What a mess.

Thurman8er wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 7:13 pm I didn't get this one, and I doubt that I would have. I'm still not clear as to what the title had to do with it.

Steve, for what it’s worth I got this one fairly quickly but spent too much time this weekend likely not getting the MGWCC. Maybe we should be a team!

Here’s what tipped this one for me...as I was thinking about the double-word cities I thought FC for Fort Collins, then flashed on the infamous Four Corners puzzle where Colorado was C not CO. And I work in a regulatory field so FCC jumped out and it was all over from there.

The title seems to suggest to look for three things each. Kind of like the Hubert H Humphrey puzzle from a couple years ago (which I did not get). But agree that’s not all that clear.

I fixated on the MAPLE at top center. All the states that claim a variety of maple as their state tree had their 2-letter abbreviation in the puzzle (NY, RI, VT, WI), but not WV - so Charleston. Perhaps I should wait until after breakfast to tackle these .

I also flirted with Denver since 'Denver, CO' was entirely within PROVIDENCE (as opposed to Dover), but that didn't seem like a strong rationale.

Congrats to all who solved it!

I got this one at the eleventh hour, but was pleased with it. The "acronymization" of the city answers plus their states didn't bug me, as it seems to have bugged others, although it took me too long to see it - but then I come from a world of acronyms at work. Everything is reduced to PMFs, EWPs, PDs, FOIA, FLSA, etc. (can you guess I'm in HR??? lol). The "Location, Location, Location" was what pointed me to the 100% answer - circling the others in the grid (SAT, FCC, PRI, etc.) revelaed the location of the answer in the grid (ANY), and only Albany, NY, retrofits that answer.

I liked this one, myself. It was tricky enough that I had to spend a lot of time staring it, to the point where I almost thought I could re-create the grid from scratch. I started circling state abbreviations, looking at maps, etc., too. I thought the three locations must be important, and was about to embark on some "city, county, state" research, but as I was once again listing those cities, I saw either the FCC or PRI, and I got that little tingle of excitement that I get when I'm on the cusp of a breakthrough. I found all the associated abbreviations in the grid, and then (to avoid a confirmation bias error) I grabbed my list of capitals and listed out how I would abbreviate every one. If one and only one was there, I knew it would be the answer. As soon as I got to ANY I knew I had it, but I finished the list to be sure. I thought it was 100%. And as much as Joe doesn't like the answer, I would have been equally salty, given this particular grid, if the answer had turned out to be "J."

JimmyJam wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 2:33 pm ...that PRI at the top of the grid is not “crossworthy” (according to xwordinfo, for example, the last time it appeared in a Times puzzle was 23 years ago) and therefore must be relevant to the meta. When I noticed that ANC, only slightly more crossworthy in my estimation (though I’ve certainly seen it before) was in the mirror position at the bottom of the grid, it all came together!

I love the word "crossworthy".
....and I am super-impressed that you would know exactly when the last time PRI appeared in a puzzle!

Meg wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 6:10 pm In the gentlest, most tactful way possible, I would discourage solvers from making up rules about what a meta puzzle can have or not have and then accusing the constructor of breaking them. As far as I know there is no rule book.

I totally agree with you.

I didn't solve this one. And, frankly, when a Gaffney puzzle is Gaffneyesque, I tend not to enjoy them. However, that doesn't make them invalid in any way.

When I don't manage to solve, I might share what tripped me up or all the different aggravations I went through all for naught. I also might get angry -- at myself either for not seeing what I could/should have or again at myself for spending so much time on it when I "knew" I would never get it. But why transfer that frustration into blaming the guy who gave me the puzzle?

Inca wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2019 10:07 am

Meg wrote: ↑Mon May 27, 2019 6:10 pm In the gentlest, most tactful way possible, I would discourage solvers from making up rules about what a meta puzzle can have or not have and then accusing the constructor of breaking them. As far as I know there is no rule book.

I totally agree with you.

I didn't solve this one. And, frankly, when a Gaffney puzzle is Gaffneyesque, I tend not to enjoy them. However, that doesn't make them invalid in any way.

When I don't manage to solve, I might share what tripped me up or all the different aggravations I went through all for naught. I also might get angry -- at myself either for not seeing what I could/should have or again at myself for spending so much time on it when I "knew" I would never get it. But why transfer that frustration into blaming the guy who gave me the puzzle?

As a corallary, creating expectations in your head of what is normal, or what should (or shouldn’t) be part of a puzzle can seriously impair your ability to find the meta. I still do this unconsciously sometimes and then kick myself later.

I had Albany, but was thankful that Alexandria is no longer the capital of Virginia, since AVA was in the puzzle.