XWord Muggles Forum

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:35 am**

I think we really have to credit Mike for the elegance and ingenuity in constructing a puzzle where he first had to fit in key words which listed the five numbers in ascending order (as well as being the first complete word in each multi-word answer.) - which means he had to find foreign numbers that also spelled out English words.

And then he was able to place his answer letters in the grid number boxes in that same order (not to mention that the first three words - 2D, 5D, and 6D - overlapped the first key word - an additional constraint he had to overcome).

And it was kind of him to list the five languages in 61D to tell us what language to look up - and in what order - to greatly simplify matters for those of us who are not polyglots. Not to mention that he kindly gave a roadmap with the title, HEAD (which is a common cryptic word meaning first [of something]) and COUNT (which suggests numbers). And as an additional bonus, HEAD was a roadmap for both steps, first word (of key words) and then first letter (of grid answers).

I thus would rank this puzzle very highly for the above reasons.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:37 am**

Joe Ross wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:02 am I don't know if this is a good thing, or not, because it will take a lot of the fun out of this contest, but I've discovered a fool-proof method of solving every one of the these contest crosswords.

It works on all past meta puzzles offered to date, at least, and it will be interesting to see how Mike, Matt, Peter, Pete, our Meta Monday muggles, and others get around this sublime engineering:

[Edit1: Change in method of posting image to credit its creator.]

XKCD

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:47 am**

My noob is showing. Biggest rabbit hole ever. With "head count" in mind, I noted a statistically extravagant number of letters L in the grid, which combined in astonishing ways with double-letter O's to make a certain number of clever arrangements of the word "LOO," which I'm told is British for HEAD, which is Sailor for TOILET, which is English for LOO. See? Count the number of LOO's, that's your HEAD COUNT.

As so often the case, so it is today a great relief for me on Monday mornings to read the solution and to reflect that I'd have never thought of that in a hundred years.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:59 am**

Nycerjohnnie wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:14 am Wow. I was busy this entire weekend and never got a chance to look at this one. Just looked at the answer. That's the hardest puzzle of all time, right? "Sex" was supposed to set off alarm bells for...Swedish numbers? Completely insane. Kudos to anyone who could do this one.

I think the key for people who weren’t familiar with most of the languages was to notice 61D and then notice DOS (which I assume 99.5% of people doing these puzzles would recognize as 2 in Spanish). Then with that in mind recognize that Spn. was first in the list and DOS was the first theme clue and then be willing to Google the list of numbers in those languages.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:59 am**

Joe Ross wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:00 am 20200612 WSJCC Head Count.gif

Grrrrrrr

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:01 am**

I got nowhere with this puzzle ending my streak of 3 even with a couple of kind nudges. First I had trouble identifying the theme answers; only 3 were clearly right and others were of same length. Then I had the 61d part but couldn't match numbers since I googled 1-10 only. Also the sites I looked at for Japanese had characters not words for numbers and long pronunciations. Nowhere did I see go for 5 on these sites... Just one of those times when nothing clicked. Waiting for next Thursday.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:01 am**

ReB wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:35 am
And it was kind of him to list the five languages in 61D to tell us what language to look up - and in what order

Without that it would have approached PGW level of difficulty.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:19 am**

I can't believe it. Turns out I was not on the shore. I was so close. I added the numbers up and they totalled to FORTY. I figured that had to be the answer. I'm kicking myself

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:20 am**

But the one I wanted more than all to work was the "Head Count": Dracula!

Totally Brilliant Thinking MMac!

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:21 am**

KAS 1 last week, KAS 5 this week. Maybe I'll get a KAS 2 or 3 next week.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:37 am**

MaineMarge wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:20 am
But the one I wanted more than all to work was the "Head Count": Dracula!

Totally Brilliant Thinking MMac!

I forgot I looked for counts, too! But when I didn't see my favorite, CHOCULA, I knew that couldn't be the right path.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:46 am**

Forgot to mention on Thursday that — for search purposes — the puzzle creators' names have been added near each puzzle in Past WSJ Crossword Contests & Solutions.

This will also be posted this Thursday in the next WSJCC topic.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:54 am**

While ONE was a distracting red herring, it also was the first thing I saw along with DOS, pointing me along the right track. I also had SEI as the Italian 6, and after working the letters unsuccessfully for a while, noticed 61D and then found the way. Knowledge of Japanese or German numbers would have helped me greatly, but google had nice lists.
Great puzzle! Interesting about FORTY. I did add my numbers at some point when I had the earlier incorrect foreign numbers. But only because STLLL was not a word!

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:56 am**

MMac wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:12 am Congratulations to all of you (including my wife) who got this. I spent the weekend hopelessly chasing rabbit after rabbit:
The clues that leapt out at me: "The _ Dam is on it", twice. Ural, Loire, and the puzzle lists other rivers: Alamos, Mingo, Inga, Bela

Head as in "Loo"; five rows in the puzzle have L-O-O

Five states that head clues: MIN, LOU, ALA, TEX, WIS

Counting: One, for, ate, ten, etc.

Greek letters in the puzzle: chi, eta, pi, beta...

Obvious pairs: Ural/Loire, sash/belt, ESC/TAB, rasp/awl, end/kill, doze/laze

Five famous athletes hidden in the clues: Cobb, Budge, Orr, Cal, Flo (alongside 20 other names)

Five things in your toolbox: Rasp, hack, awl, tape, belt

Clear suggestions of water: tap, loo, suds, fall, ice, pool, seas, etc.

ALL FOR ONE

18 clues that start: consonant, O (and five of them: LO, LO, LO, LO, LO)

23 answers that begin with Roman numerals

But the one I wanted more than all to work was the "Head Count": Dracula!
Again, congrats to you all.

If it hasn't been written already, I would not be shocked to see a Meta built around hidden Greek letters.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:08 am**

Did the 40 Club "pageant" themselves?

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:15 am**

MarkL wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:56 am
MMac wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:12 am Congratulations to all of you (including my wife) who got this. I spent the weekend hopelessly chasing rabbit after rabbit:
The clues that leapt out at me: "The _ Dam is on it", twice. Ural, Loire, and the puzzle lists other rivers: Alamos, Mingo, Inga, Bela

Head as in "Loo"; five rows in the puzzle have L-O-O

Five states that head clues: MIN, LOU, ALA, TEX, WIS

Counting: One, for, ate, ten, etc.

Greek letters in the puzzle: chi, eta, pi, beta...

Obvious pairs: Ural/Loire, sash/belt, ESC/TAB, rasp/awl, end/kill, doze/laze

Five famous athletes hidden in the clues: Cobb, Budge, Orr, Cal, Flo (alongside 20 other names)

Five things in your toolbox: Rasp, hack, awl, tape, belt

Clear suggestions of water: tap, loo, suds, fall, ice, pool, seas, etc.

ALL FOR ONE

18 clues that start: consonant, O (and five of them: LO, LO, LO, LO, LO)

23 answers that begin with Roman numerals

But the one I wanted more than all to work was the "Head Count": Dracula!
Again, congrats to you all.
If it hasn't been written already, I would not be shocked to see s Meta built around hidden Greek letters.

I believe Peter Washington (pgw) did one...I just checked his archives, and it was Puzzle #2, called "I See." It was the first one of his I got correct.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:22 am**

Al Sisti wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:15 am
MarkL wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:56 am
MMac wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:12 am Congratulations to all of you (including my wife) who got this. I spent the weekend hopelessly chasing rabbit after rabbit:
The clues that leapt out at me: "The _ Dam is on it", twice. Ural, Loire, and the puzzle lists other rivers: Alamos, Mingo, Inga, Bela

Head as in "Loo"; five rows in the puzzle have L-O-O

Five states that head clues: MIN, LOU, ALA, TEX, WIS

Counting: One, for, ate, ten, etc.

Greek letters in the puzzle: chi, eta, pi, beta...

Obvious pairs: Ural/Loire, sash/belt, ESC/TAB, rasp/awl, end/kill, doze/laze

Five famous athletes hidden in the clues: Cobb, Budge, Orr, Cal, Flo (alongside 20 other names)

Five things in your toolbox: Rasp, hack, awl, tape, belt

Clear suggestions of water: tap, loo, suds, fall, ice, pool, seas, etc.

ALL FOR ONE

18 clues that start: consonant, O (and five of them: LO, LO, LO, LO, LO)

23 answers that begin with Roman numerals

But the one I wanted more than all to work was the "Head Count": Dracula!
Again, congrats to you all.
If it hasn't been written already, I would not be shocked to see s Meta built around hidden Greek letters.
I believe Peter Washington (pgw) did one...I just checked his archives, and it was Puzzle #2, called "I See." It was the first one of his I got correct.

Thank you. Would have been before my WSJCC baptism. Now I know to put that mechanism in the back of the proverbial tool box! Cheers!

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:23 am**

MarkL wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:22 am
Al Sisti wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:15 am
MarkL wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:56 am

If it hasn't been written already, I would not be shocked to see s Meta built around hidden Greek letters.
I believe Peter Washington (pgw) did one...I just checked his archives, and it was Puzzle #2, called "I See." It was the first one of his I got correct.
Thank you. Would have been before my WSJCC baptism. Now I know to put that mechanism in the back of the proverbial tool box! Cheers!

Not necessarily... There're many ways to skin a cat.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:34 am**

Wondering how you determine which are the theme answers when 2 are clearly right due to being very long but several in the middle are the same length?? I have been confused about this in several puzzles.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:42 am**

Nlbil wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:34 am Wondering how you determine which are the theme answers when 2 are clearly right due to being very long but several in the middle are the same length?? I have been confused about this in several puzzles.

If you read the article Matt Gaffney wrote about how to spot a plagiarized Crossword puzzle - he actually goes into how theme answers are constructed and where they are typically placed. Also, if they are not in the conventional spot (Like last week’s ZT puzzle) usually the constructor finds a way to clue you (Like MG did last week w/ the clue/answer about two words - which essentially meant the two word answers were the theme clues in that puzzle instead of the normal ones). Another good example was MS’s RICHARD III puzzle where there weren’t traditional theme answers but he clued what to use instead with a clue/answer combo in the grid.

XWord Muggles Forum

"Head Count" - June 12, 2020

Re: "Head Count" - June 12, 2020

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Re: "Head Count" - June 12, 2020