#49 - "Head Count"

Creative and challenging meta crosswords (currently on hiatus) from: www.pgwcc.net
Tina
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#21

Post by Tina »

Still utterly looooost at sea.
Laura M
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#22

Post by Laura M »

I think I finally got this one. It's tough for a couple of reasons, but I'd say it's not overly complicated.
Laura M
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#23

Post by Laura M »

Aha! I hadn't been 100% sure of my answer, but I just found a nice confirming bit that ties it up very neatly.

This is a very clever meta, and nicely done. But it might be a little obscure for some.
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TMart
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#24

Post by TMart »

Now that Peter has posted the solution, I guess we can discuss. I did notice that the O's were only in every other column, for ten columns in a non-standard grid, so the 10-digit number had to come from there somehow. I missed the whole abacus part and simply counted the O's for each digit. I got 1,335,324,412, which, following from 15A, was pretty close to the population of both India and China as of whatever recent date Google would spit out, but not exactly, so I was left scratching my head. I didn't submit it because the number wasn't exact for either one, so while I was pretty sure the answer revolved around the population of one of those countries, I couldn't quite bring it home. Good idea, and I got most of the way there, but a tough final solve when trying to exactly nail down a number that big when way too much info for more recent years is now available on Google.
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FrankieHeck
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#25

Post by FrankieHeck »

I am very disappointed with myself. This puzzle haunted me, and I saw some things that I didn't follow up on. I was thinking it could be a "census" number, but didn't actually look any up some to see if I could make anything out of it. Even worse, I woke up from one of my many dreams about this puzzle and I thought of Chisanbop (remember that finger counting method that used to be popular)? But by the time I actually got out of bed, I'd forgotten about my epiphany. If I had continued with that sort of thinking, maybe I would have hit on the abacus...I don't know. I did look up ways to visually represent numbers, but I just didn't land on it. Great puzzle, just what I'd expect from PGW, and I graciously accept my defeat.
pgw
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#26

Post by pgw »

TMart wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:12 am Good idea, and I got most of the way there, but a tough final solve when trying to exactly nail down a number that big when way too much info for more recent years is now available on Google.
I envisioned the solving experience as first finding the number from the abacus, and then confirming its relevance by googling; I think where I misjudged (in terms of difficulty) was in assuming that abaci would be more familiar to more people. They're not exactly everyday items for me, but (maybe because my grandmother was slightly obsessed with East Asian culture/decor?) I have memories of goofing around with the "standard" Chinese abacus from an early age. So I thought the pattern of Os in this puzzle would be more immediately familiar to more solvers than I think it turned out to be.

This week's puzzle is much less mathy, so hopefully it won't frustrate the same people as last week's did. Good luck!
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Beth Tyrpin
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#27

Post by Beth Tyrpin »

I have to thank my Grandma Rosie for showing me how to use an abacus. I didn’t remember how to use it, but I recognized what the O’s represented. I still wondered if the answer was supposed to be translated into a phrase somehow. I looked up the number and found it could represent the population of China which was hinted at by 15A. I did submit the correct number but I wasn’t 100% sure.
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Al Sisti
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#28

Post by Al Sisti »

I would never have gotten this. I did know it would be tougher than a 1 with 28 zeroes, and tougher than "six billion" (there were six entries whose first letter - the head? -- were B), and tougher than 1,335,324,412 -- all for the reasons Peter mentions in his writeup. So I dove in. And in. And in. I saw the face, and that rows 4-9 were where the eyes and nose were, so I thought maybe he wanted us to use the O's/zeroes as a "mask." I even made a copy of the completed grid, cut out the O's from the copy and placed the "mask" over various parts of the puzzle... I even got excited when doing so revealed the (new) word GREAT near the bottom of the grid. But I never saw, or would have seen, any connection to an abacus. Kudos to anyone who got it.
Laura M
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#29

Post by Laura M »

I did have an abacus as a (math nerd) kid, and I did learn how to use it, but it still took a long time for me to notice that long-buried memory waving at me from the grid. One of the detours I took was thinking that the number would make sense in base 5, if the top row of Os is the "five's place" and the bottom numbers are the "one's place." But there was absolutely nothing in the grid or clues to indicate that base 5 had anything to do with it. (Interestingly, it turns out that the abacus representation works out the same as base 5.)

When I did get the number I tried looking up populations of China and India from the past several years, but didn't find anything that matched exactly, so I couldn't figure out if the number had any significance or if I had even gotten the right answer. Much later it occurred to me to google the number itself plus population, and came up with the 2010 China census count.

Cool meta idea, but maybe not for everybody...
Laura M
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#30

Post by Laura M »

FrankieHeck wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:19 am I am very disappointed with myself. This puzzle haunted me, and I saw some things that I didn't follow up on. I was thinking it could be a "census" number, but didn't actually look any up some to see if I could make anything out of it. Even worse, I woke up from one of my many dreams about this puzzle and I thought of Chisanbop (remember that finger counting method that used to be popular)? But by the time I actually got out of bed, I'd forgotten about my epiphany. If I had continued with that sort of thinking, maybe I would have hit on the abacus...I don't know. I did look up ways to visually represent numbers, but I just didn't land on it. Great puzzle, just what I'd expect from PGW, and I graciously accept my defeat.
Just had to say, Chisanbop, oh my gosh. I can't believe someone else remembers that! I learned Chisanbop in oh, third grade? and was obsessed for a while. I actually thought of it with this puzzle too, because the abacus and all of that grade-school-math-nerd stuff is interconnected in my memory.
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FrankieHeck
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#31

Post by FrankieHeck »

Yes, and I lay there in bed refeshing my memory, thinking ok, the thumb counts as 5 and then the fingers are ones, and I thought I was really on to something, and then....? I just didn't follow through! It's basically a finger abacus!

I still use chisanbop occasionally because I suck at arithmetic. I can't even do simple addition and subtraction quickly in my head.
pgw
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#32

Post by pgw »

Laura M wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:14 pm Just had to say, Chisanbop, oh my gosh. I can't believe someone else remembers that! I learned Chisanbop in oh, third grade? and was obsessed for a while. I actually thought of it with this puzzle too, because the abacus and all of that grade-school-math-nerd stuff is interconnected in my memory.
Not just in your memory - Chisanbop is basically a two-rail suanpan, and my guess is the one directly inspired the other.
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anjhinz
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#33

Post by anjhinz »

Wow, really impressive, but I just couldn't get past the face shape in the grid plus the title "HEAD count". I did google populations of India and China but could never make the connection. Bravo on the construction and the idea, I wish I could have gotten there. Next time!
Laura M
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#34

Post by Laura M »

FrankieHeck wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:18 pm Yes, and I lay there in bed refeshing my memory, thinking ok, the thumb counts as 5 and then the fingers are ones, and I thought I was really on to something, and then....? I just didn't follow through! It's basically a finger abacus!
pgw wrote: Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:29 pm Not just in your memory - Chisanbop is basically a two-rail suanpan, and my guess is the one directly inspired the other.
Wow! I never thought of it that way, but it makes so much sense. A finger abacus! (Or, for that matter, counting in base five!)
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Meg
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#35

Post by Meg »

I am constantly trying to see images in the grid. Usually I’m disappointed. This time it WAS an abacus. Yay! How do I use an abacus? An abacus number generator online. And I learned something in the process.
Check out and support http://CrosswordsForCancer.com.
Tina
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#36

Post by Tina »

Nope. Team Nope all the way on this one. I figured it might involve something I had little-to-no knowledge of, since I never did figure out what all those O's represented. Never thought of an abacus.
burak
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#37

Post by burak »

Contrary to many's experience, this was the first ever PGW meta I've gotten! I'm now proudly shooting 16.6% from the field.

What's even more bizarre is that I didn't know how an abacus worked. I googled India's population and the latest estimate (or census, I don't remember) was 1.339 billion. The first three digits matched the number of Os, and I assigned 5 points to the ones on the 4th row and submitted an answer.

I guess I just deserved to get lucky with this one :)
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