#47 - "Flock Together"

[FrankieHeck]

I also got the WSJ (at the very last minute) and not this one. I hesitate to post this because I'm sure there will be pushback, but I think the reason many people ended up in that boat is because the WSJ word pairs were a little more elegant than these. CHESS + APEAK really does sound like *Chesapeake*, and ditto for the rest of them. PUFF + PHIN does not actually sound like *puffin* (you double up on the eff sound in the middle). I'll give you PAIR + RUT and KEY + WEE, but PENN + GYWNN also feels like a stretch to me, and AWE + SPREE is *really* a stretch. (Does anyone say osprey that way? I've always said/heard it with a long a at the end) Also, why have these phonetic word pairs and then not do anything with the correctly spelled versions? The meta answer is just the crossings. Feels like a missed opportunity for another step in there.

I think I'm going to take a break from PGWCC for a while. I frequently find myself frustrated by these puzzles, whether I solve them or not, and then I get told I'm wrong for being frustrated. Well done to all who figured out this one and the WSJ. Not an easy puzzle week last week.

Not intended to be pushback, but I interpreted the "Flock Together" as sort of a hint at the meeting point of the two words. (Though this was more an after-the-fact assumption. At first it had me looking for V formations.) I do say "osprey" with a "spree" at the end. I didn't have a problem with the word combinations at all. Did anyone watch The Electric Company as a child? (Dating myself here.) Two people would face each other, say halves of words, then say them put together. These all work for me. "Penn...Gwynn....Penguin." Not how we might say it in connected speech, when we end up schwa-ing a lot of our vowels, but how we would tell someone to say it.

But that's just me. Your results varied. I like PGW's puzzles. I find myself on his wavelength more often than not. But if I wasn't finding puzzles fun, then I wouldn't do them either.

[Laura M]

[...]
I think I'm going to take a break from PGWCC for a while. I frequently find myself frustrated by these puzzles, whether I solve them or not, and then I get told I'm wrong for being frustrated.
[...]

You're not wrong for being frustrated! If you feel one way, it doesn't make you wrong if someone else feels differently! (Am I too old to say "You do you"?) I definitely agree that you should take a break if these puzzles are causing you more irritation than enjoyment.

I find PGW's grids and metas a little rough, not as polished and streamlined for mass consumption as WSJCC. However, those polished ones can be a little bland, and quite often there's something new and delightful in PGWCC, so I keep coming back. I just have to not obsess over the ones that I don't get with a "reasonable" amount of time/effort.

[FrankieHeck]

I find PGW's grids to be rough. But I'm in it for the meta, so I just Google my way through the grid. That's often still a challenge for me! But I usually learn something. (Well, maybe that's not true...is it really learning if I don't remember it? I learn something for a minute haha.)

[pgw]

PUFF + PHIN does not actually sound like *puffin* (you double up on the eff sound in the middle).

This was the only one that gave me pause, but for a slightly different reason than you seem to be saying. "Puffin" in fact does have a double F - so, as with parrot, I felt both syllables needed the F sound. PUFF + IN does not sound right to me. (As one data point for this notion - if you had to hyphenate the word at the end of a line, you'd do it puf-fin.) My issue was that what I gave you could arguably be viewed as having a triple F - that it really should be PUF + FIN, the problem being that "puf" isn't a word. (This was also the only bird I could find that allowed me to intersect the two entries at a P.)

PENN + GYWNN also feels like a stretch to me,

This didn't occur to me as a stretch ahead of time. (In fact, it was the seed entry, a random idea that popped into my head one day and made me go looking for other examples.) I think technically, PENG + GWYNN would be best, but again, "peng" isn't a word. (If you have the pin-pen merger, PING + GWYNN would work, but that would be super baffling for people who, like me, don't have the pin-pen merger.)

and AWE + SPREE is *really* a stretch. (Does anyone say osprey that way? I've always said/heard it with a long a at the end)

This one I actually looked up ahead of time. I say it that way, but I'd heard it your way so I wanted to see whether one is more "right" than the other. Every dictionary I've looked at gives "spree" as the American pronunciation and "spray" as the British pronunciation. I live in the American West and spend a reasonable amount of time around lakes and rivers, and my experience has always been that "spree" is more prevalent 'round these parts.

I am not going to tell you you're wrong for feeling frustrated. I'm an amateur puzzle maker with a tiny following! Of course WSJ and MGWCC are usually better than mine. If my puzzles aren't bringing you joy, no reason to keep doing them.

pgw

[Hector]

I agree with the stretchiness observations (except I think the stretch in AWE SPREE is more with the AWE unless you're from Queens), and with the frustration, which may, however, be a big part of what draws me to these. But for me the puzzle would have been fine even with stretchier pieces, even though I might never have gotten it (took me long enough as it is). In the latest MGWCC, for instance I think SOUP EERIER works fine, even though nobody pronounces the long U, nor does the syllabilization divide like that; we just had to get what he was going for, and it was reasonable of him to challenge us to do so.

Crosswords, like music, have flexible conventions and a lot of sometimes-transgressive improvisation, which makes for variable "accessibility." Metas (and Thursday rebuses) are on the modern jazz side of that spectrum, where sometimes I get what's going on, but often not, or not on the first few listens. On the other hand, I don't really like that kind of jazz, or rebuses . . . what do they say about inconsistent hobgoblins?

[pgw]

I agree with the stretchiness observations (except I think the stretch in AWE SPREE is more with the AWE unless you're from Queens)

This I don't get at all - only if you do speak with some sort of New England accent does AWE not equal AH. For me with my California accent, those two words, and the first syllable of OSPREY, sound identical.

for instance I think SOUP EERIER works fine, even though nobody pronounces the long U

Huh? I pronounce the long U! In practice, it probably gets slightly schwa-ized, because it's not a stressed syllable, but it's way closer to sue-perior than suh-perior.

I think the lesson is if you're counting on pronunciation you'd better be careful! I think there was a fairly recent MGWCC for which Matt caught some flack based on regional pronunciation differences.

[pgw]

Hey y'all - sorry for all the phonetic minutiae and for the late puzzle this week. It's up now:

https://pgwcc.net/2020/02/06/puzzle-48- ... -sequence/

[Hector]

Pgw, do you also pronounce AW like AH, or do you pronounce AW and AWE differently? Merriam Webster says AW and AWE are pronounced the same, which seems right to me, and that AH is different from both, which also seem right (and I also agree with them that the O in OSPREY is AH rather than AW or AWE, though my Queens-born mom, especially after a cup of cAWEfee, would have dissented). Their pronunciation for SUPERIOR is also fully schwa, not that they're infallible.

[pgw]

Pgw, do you also pronounce AW like AH, or do you pronounce AW and AWE differently? Merriam Webster says AW and AWE are pronounced the same, which seems right to me, and that AH is different from both, which also seem right (and I also agree with them that the O in OSPREY is AH rather than AW or AWE, though my Queens-born mom, especially after a cup of cAWEfee, would have dissented). Their pronunciation for SUPERIOR is also fully schwa, not that they're infallible.

I pronounce all of those things more or less identically. The W in AWE/AW might have an (almost imperpectible) effect, but the vowel sound is the same. Which is all to say - the open O is not part of my accent.