#599 - "Directors Meeting"

[oldjudge]

There is a link on Matt’s site where you can get a complete description, on Tuesdays, of how to solve the puzzle, not just the solution. That will provide as much of a learning experience as one might ask for.

[Hector]

I disagree, Your Honor! If you're stuck at a given step, you might get to exercise at least some of your meta muscles (and have at least some meta-solving fun) if helped through that one. Many abilities are trained that way. I find that when people nudge-solve here they happily admit it. Mugs and leaderboards are another issue, which I am probably less concerned about than many.

That said, some years ago I was perhaps unhealthily invested in my Project Euler (math/computer puzzles) solving record and I did resent that someone had set up a website specifically to post spoilers. So, sue me (but Judge, you must recuse!).

In other news, I'm wondering how much of the difficulty here is an age-related issue; does the meta skew, well, okay, Boomer?

[oldjudge]

Let’s agree to disagree. The help will be provided on Tuesday. The only thing a nudge does now if satisfy the impatient.

[ack]

Didn't mean to stir up a debate. I envy those who have IRL friends to confer with -- my friends have not been bitten by the meta bug, so I sometimes feel like I'm out in the wilderness, especially when I read write-ups at Fiend or elsewhere that refer to "solver friends" or "solving groups." Anyway, you are all a generous community and I appreciate everybody's passion for these puzzles!

[Laura M]

Just came here to say I'm still lost in space, no real hope of getting beamed up at this point... That's par for the course for me on a Week 4, but I'm sad that I haven't been able to work out what sounds like a really clever meta! Congrats to those who got there, with or without nudges*.

*Matt has different categories for solo and non-solo solves, so clearly in this contest it's acceptable to work with others to whatever degree you want, as long as you identify yourself accordingly. Actually I think it should always be a matter of personal preference. I don't get the same "zing" of satisfaction from an assisted solve, thus I don't feel like it's worth it to ask for hints; I'll just wait for the solution and learn what I can. But I have absolutely no problem with others collaborating on this or any other puzzle, and even winning prizes for doing so. It's all for the fun of it, as far as I'm concerned.

[BarbaraK]

That reminds me...

When I started doing MGWCC, I also noticed that the late month puzzles write-ups on Fiend often included mentions of discussing it with his "partner", and I just assumed that they were a couple. Later, there were references to a spouse, so then I figured that his partner must be a fellow lawyer or doctor or someone he worked with. It took me embarrassingly long to realize that his partner was just someone he solved puzzles with.

[damefox]

If I wanted to just stare at metas and struggle by myself I wouldn't have joined this forum. In addition to discussing puzzles after the fact, I think having people to ask for help along the way is an extremely useful learning tool.

[damefox]

Solved. With help. I have to say I didn't think the solution was anywhere near as satisfying as some people seem to have found it, mostly because for me time spent Googling greatly outweighed time spent working with the puzzle, which I don't especially enjoy in a meta. It's possible I'm the wrong generation to be solving these puzzles, as step 1 didn't so much jump out as me as have to be pulled out of hiding by brute force and with much objecting.

[anjhinz]

I've been staring all weekend and getting nowhere... I'd appreciate a PM nudge, if possible, especially if it's because I'm a little too young... thanks!

[TMart]

I'm pretty lost on this one. I have an idea of how the meta structure "should" work, and I see a lot of stuff that might be important, but I think I don't have enough subject matter knowledge to know what I'm actually looking at. Still time left though - I may get there yet. Hoping for
"post-enlightenment"!

As far as nudges, to each his own - this is all for fun. I personally prefer not to get or give nudges, mainly because I enjoy the "aha" of the solo solve, and I also don't have a clear idea of how much to nudge without ruining that solving experience for the nudgee (as "read the title" and "look at the grid" usually aren't particularly helpful). As far as the impact of nudging on prizes, most are random drawings anyway, and I think its statistically insignificant if a few more group solvers are added to the eligible group - and it's still on me to get it right anyway to be eligible. I do enjoy reading the post-mortems, though.

[Leslie]

This should have been in my wheelhouse, but I got stuck at the first step. I saw some things, then looked for some similar things, but nothing added up to a full rabbit. I don't have to worry about a streak or perfect month, though, since I'll have no time at all for week 5 with family visiting until Monday night! Hope you all have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

[JJD]

Rabbit holes spelunked
Definitely lost again
The woes of week 4

[oldjudge]

I've been staring all weekend and getting nowhere... I'd appreciate a PM nudge, if possible, especially if it's because I'm a little too young... thanks!

I don’t think solving this puzzle has nothing to do with age. You will see that tomorrow, if you don’t solve it by then. Matt is in his forties, so it’s not like you had to be around when puzzles were solved by oil lamp to get the answer.

[BarbaraK]

Did Matt say whether the deadline would be noon or moved 3PM (since it went out late)?

[Hector]

Barbara (a name for one of Aristotle's syllogisms!), I don't think Matt said anything about a revised deadline.

Just watched the answer movie, and in terms of the creative team, while there are more than flashes of promise, it's not there yet, in my immodesty.

[David R]

If you work a meta with someone else, that's one thing. To get a hint from someone who has solved it, is something completely different. I would consider that stepping over the line and none of the rationales I have heard makes that acceptable in my book.

With that said solved all by my lonesome.

[TMart]

One last look and.......AHA!!!

[damefox]

If you work a meta with someone else, that's one thing. To get a hint from someone who has solved it, is something completely different. I would consider that stepping over the line and none of the rationales I have heard makes that acceptable in my book.

There is no such thing as "stepping over the line." They're crosswords. People do this for fun. And these particular crosswords are ones that we all paid money for, at which point I feel like whatever way makes you feel like you're getting your money's worth is the right way to do it. And if it really is so offensive that people who get help get the same credit on the leaderboard as solo-solvers do, well, that's why the submission form has the "Solo solve" question. No one is trying to pretend that they solved it on their own when they didn't. We're just trying to learn and work through it in a way that makes it fun.

[CrossedPurposes]

Would appreciate a last second nudge - been going down the same rabbit hole with no end in sight.

[bhamren]

Same here, lost at sea until aha