"Out Of Bounds" - December 13, 2019

[Joe Ross]

As everyone knows, I'm a stickler for spoilers, but I didn't think Bird's post was one at all -- in fact, the use of "quarterbacking" didn't even jump out at me until I re-read it!

I agree with Wendy. I read Bird's comment and did not think about it being a potential spoiler. I just got off the phone with a friend of mine and all we were doing was Monday Morning Quarterbacking of the Pats

Agreed. That term is used quite often and unless you had the answer, it probably didn’t even stick out.

I did not see the "Monday morning quarterback" comment as indicating that the answer was a quarterback, in fact I wondered how that comment could be a spoiler since he said the mentioned players had not had their numbers retired.

Also, one of the two players mentioned was not a quarterback.

I didn't put serious effort into solving the meta until late Saturday. I read the post and the hint at it's being a spoiler & tried to use it to find a solution. Granted, I am not the handiest gadget in the junk drawer, but my only take was that the player wasn't considered "great". After solving, my thought on Bird's post was that he was right about that.

Bob: The game was never in doubt. Everyone in the stands knew that the grumpy lobster boat captain would solve the Bengals' first half running success and that the Bengals would be forced to throw. Three INTs later, the fat lady gargled & yodeled the scales to prepare to make it official.

[sharkicicles]

Someone mentioned this site last week and it's worth mentioning again in relation to this puzzle: onelook.com. It made figuring out the first word of the meta clue so much easier. If you know only a few letters of a word, you can use the question mark as a wild card for the unknown letters, and the site will give you a list of all possible words. I knew that the first letter (E) and the fifth letter (E) were the only certain ones. I also knew that the possibilities for the third letter were limited to E and G. So I did two searches on the site: E?E?E? and E?G?E?. "ELEVEN" was the most logical word that came up.

FWIW I did the exact same thing but on oneacross.com.

[BarbaraK]

Eleven was the last piece I found too, but I already had numbers on my mind since that was a part of the prompt, and seeing the E, I was looking for eleven or eighty.

[Inca]

Sometimes saying something is a spoiler is itself a spoiler.

Absolutely true. Unlike others on this forum, I believe a spoiler has to be quite direct to qualify.

[Jazzvibist]

Before tackling MG metas I often wait until a couple of pages of comments appear on this site. If there is a preponderance of references to “Mr. G,” I don’t usually spend any time on it, which is what happened this week (and was justified since I never could have come up with Phil Simms’ name absent searching the Internet). This time I could kick myself for not having at least spent some time on it, even though I would have stopped even had I solved it, because Matt’s construction is mind-bogglingly brilliant.

[Commodore]

Fun puzzle for football fans. A trigger for cooler discussion, bar bets and all-night debates about accolade worthiness. Brought back many memories of great players and games. Also hung me up on names that jumped out in the puzzle that were inbounds, but didn't quite fit the anointed nine with both retired jersey + precisely 2 Lombardi trophies. Anyway, shout out to players like Carl ELLER, Tom RATHman, ELI Manning, and personal favorite Jim PLUN-K-ETT. Oh, he's there, but about as broken up as an old quarterback's knees. I had the uncanny sense John Facenda was narrating this meta from the frozen tundra of Lambeau.

[BarbaraK]

Before tackling MG metas I often wait until a couple of pages of comments appear on this site. If there is a preponderance of references to “Mr. G,” I don’t usually spend any time on it, which is what happened this week (and was justified since I never could have come up with Phil Simms’ name absent searching the Internet). This time I could kick myself for not having at least spent some time on it, even though I would have stopped even had I solved it, because Matt’s construction is mind-bogglingly brilliant.

Just to give proper credit, this one was by Mike Shenk, not Matt.

[Bob cruise director]

Fun puzzle for football fans. A trigger for cooler discussion, bar bets and all-night debates about accolade worthiness. Brought back many memories of great players and games. Also hung me up on names that jumped out in the puzzle that were inbounds, but didn't quite fit the anointed nine with both retired jersey + precisely 2 Lombardi trophies. Anyway, shout out to players like Carl ELLER, Tom RATHman, ELI Manning, and personal favorite Jim PLUN-K-ETT. Oh, he's there, but about as broken up as an old quarterback's knees. I had the uncanny sense John Facenda was narrating this meta from the frozen tundra of Lambeau.

I had tickets to Patriots games in the early 70's when it was Jim Plunkett throwing the ball to Randy Vataha just before he got killed by the defensive line. No one should have to take the beating he took those early years

[pookie]

Wow, am I glad I didn't spend any time agonizing over this one. Now we have to "imagine" words outside of the lines?
Even if I had gotten that far, I'd still have to Google Phil Simms.
On a big fat losing streak here. (sigh)
Congrats to those who went the distance.

[MajordomoTom]

There are nine former players in the NFL who have had their number retired by the teams that they played for and who have won two and only two Super Bowls. They are

John Elway #7 for the Denver Broncos
Ray Nitsche #66 for the Green Bay Packers – tremendous linebacker
Bart Starr #15 for the Green Bay Packers
Peyton Manning #18 whose number was retired for both the Indianapolis Colts and the Denver Broncos
Bob Griese #12 for the Miami Dolphins
Larry Csonka #39 for the Miami Dolphins
Phil Simms #11 for the New York Giants
Lawrence Taylor #56 for the New York Giants
Dwight Clark #87 for the San Francisco 49’ers

Many other players who have had their numbers retired played on teams that won more than two Super Bowls, like the49ers and the Steelers.

And there is a couple of asterisks that can be applied such as was pointed out with Simms above by TMart. The trophy currently called the Lombardi trophy was awarded for Super Bowl I but only called the Lombardy trophy in 1970.

So at worst, you could have had a 1:9 chance of being right.

Phil Simms did not play in the game that won the Superbowl that year, so I would (vehemently) argue that he did NOT help his team to win that trophy.

Bart Starr DID play in the game that won the trophy, he and they won it twice with him at the helm. His name, unlike that of Simms, can also be used "OFFSIDES" to complete words with the grid, unlike any of the other names on the list. The fact that the trophy, the SAME trophy, later acquired that name ... is irrelevant.

So I'm arguing that another mug should be awarded to one of the 121 players who submitted BART STARR as an answer to this puzzle.

[Bob cruise director]

There are nine former players in the NFL who have had their number retired by the teams that they played for and who have won two and only two Super Bowls. They are

John Elway #7 for the Denver Broncos
Ray Nitsche #66 for the Green Bay Packers – tremendous linebacker
Bart Starr #15 for the Green Bay Packers
Peyton Manning #18 whose number was retired for both the Indianapolis Colts and the Denver Broncos
Bob Griese #12 for the Miami Dolphins
Larry Csonka #39 for the Miami Dolphins
Phil Simms #11 for the New York Giants
Lawrence Taylor #56 for the New York Giants
Dwight Clark #87 for the San Francisco 49’ers

Many other players who have had their numbers retired played on teams that won more than two Super Bowls, like the49ers and the Steelers.

And there is a couple of asterisks that can be applied such as was pointed out with Simms above by TMart. The trophy currently called the Lombardi trophy was awarded for Super Bowl I but only called the Lombardy trophy in 1970.

So at worst, you could have had a 1:9 chance of being right.

Phil Simms did not play in the game that won the Superbowl that year, so I would (vehemently) argue that he did NOT help his team to win that trophy.

Bart Starr DID play in the game that won the trophy, he and they won it twice with him at the helm. His name, unlike that of Simms, can also be used "OFFSIDES" to complete words with the grid, unlike any of the other names on the list. The fact that the trophy, the SAME trophy, later acquired that name ... is irrelevant.

So I'm arguing that another mug should be awarded to one of the 121 players who submitted BART STARR as an answer to this puzzle.

The only criteria I had for my list is that they got a ring for being on a team that won the Super Bowl. Every year players who did not play in the Super Bowl get rings. I could argue that these players did help their teams win the trophy. But everyone has an opinion.

[Janet]

I got the New York Giants quickly, but then got stuck on the left side. That narrowed it down to 2 possibilities. I would have guessed, but finally the gobbledygook I had on the left resolved, and I got the right player.

[Julie O]

I solved this in the same fashion as many others, getting the right side rather quickly, but then struggling to get the 'Eleven' on the left. As irritated as I was with the Marie Kondo puzzle, it gave me the experience to know immediately what I needed to to do solve this one - add unrelated letters to make new words. While I admire the construction of the puzzle, I find solving this type a grind. I know many enjoyed it, so different folks, different strokes.

[EdStrong]

A brilliant and challenging contest! We had 1613 entries,with an unusually low 63% were correct. We suspect a lot of solvers got the right side's message (NEW YORK GIANTS) but not the left side's. (ELEVEN FROM THE) We had an enormous showing (152) for Lawrence Taylor, another Giant on two Lombardi teams with a retired number. (Is that a PAGEANT? Not quite?) Plus lots of other guesses for players with those distinctions on other teams, starting with BART STARR (121!) and including PEYTON MANNING (28), JOHN ELWAY (17) and Bob Griese (15).

Congratulations to this week's winner: Karen Graber of Niskayuna, NY!

Mike, was “ELEVEN FROM THE NEW YORK GIANTS” considered a correct answer?

[FrankieHeck]

Ok, here’s my quibble. Phil Simms didn’t play in the second Super Bowl the Giants won while he was on the team - he was injured about 13 games into that season, and Jeff Hostetler finished out the year and played (and won) the final game.

I know VERY little about football, so maybe that helped me get this one. The details like that went right over my head.

Fun fact: Jeff Hostetler is from my town, and used to own our favorite bagel shop. I guess he still lives here, but the bagel shop closed probably 20 years ago.

[Bob cruise director]

Ok, here’s my quibble. Phil Simms didn’t play in the second Super Bowl the Giants won while he was on the team - he was injured about 13 games into that season, and Jeff Hostetler finished out the year and played (and won) the final game.

I know VERY little about football, so maybe that helped me get this one. The details like that went right over my head.

Fun fact: Jeff Hostetler is from my town, and used to own our favorite bagel shop. I guess he still lives here, but the bagel shop closed probably 20 years ago.

Is that Jerome, PA?

[FrankieHeck]

Ok, here’s my quibble. Phil Simms didn’t play in the second Super Bowl the Giants won while he was on the team - he was injured about 13 games into that season, and Jeff Hostetler finished out the year and played (and won) the final game.

I know VERY little about football, so maybe that helped me get this one. The details like that went right over my head.

Fun fact: Jeff Hostetler is from my town, and used to own our favorite bagel shop. I guess he still lives here, but the bagel shop closed probably 20 years ago.

Is that Jerome, PA?

Morgantown WV. He wasn't born here, but he came back here post-foitball (after playing football here in college.) He also married the daughter of former WVU coach Don Nehlen. Another fun fact: Coach Nehlen was the first 'stranger' to meet my newborn son...ran into him as I was dropping off a birth announcement at the local paper.

[pddigi]

Bart Starr DID play in the game that won the trophy, he and they won it twice with him at the helm. His name, unlike that of Simms, can also be used "OFFSIDES" to complete words with the grid, unlike any of the other names on the list. The fact that the trophy, the SAME trophy, later acquired that name ... is irrelevant.

So I'm arguing that another mug should be awarded to one of the 121 players who submitted BART STARR as an answer to this puzzle.

Could you explain this the second sentence (or point me to a post where it was already explained). I am not understanding what is meant by how Bart Starr's name can be used "OFFSIDES" to complete words with the grid (unless you are using just a few words and the order of the letters in Bart Starr's name do not matter).

Thanks.

Paul

[MajordomoTom]

you can drop all of the letters of his name along the sides of the grid to spell words, just as you can with the ELEVEN FROM THE ... letters.

correct, using all letters of his name, but the order isn't there. That's a flaw in my argument.

[DrTom]

Clever construction but gosh what a morass! I mean there are any number of words that can be formed with the letters given:
ERGFEB PROM ?

Yes I know, what does that mean??? There was nothing to guide you to what the letters MIGHT be that made it tough, rather impossible, for me. I cannot say I'd be disappointed if this never showed up again.

So two weeks now, but at least with the WON/WIN WONDER I had 80%, with this I had 0%