"The Fourth Man" - June 28, 2019
- BethA
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:44 pm
- Location: Beaver, PA
My first time through solving the grid, I drew an arrow at 59D, as it jumped out at me as the only thing hinting at the meta. Never figured out how to use it though!
My wild guess was William Randolph Hearst. I thought the clues with such specific product information 9A, 37A, and 39D were rather unusual. Also the rhyming clues stood out, and parts of hearts has HEARST anagrammed in it, OINK has INK, STONER has TONER, and along with EPSON and SLED (rosebud), I talked myself into it as a wild guess even though I never found a sound mechanism to derive it.
Other approaches I tried are too numerous to mention. Congrats to those who got it!!
My wild guess was William Randolph Hearst. I thought the clues with such specific product information 9A, 37A, and 39D were rather unusual. Also the rhyming clues stood out, and parts of hearts has HEARST anagrammed in it, OINK has INK, STONER has TONER, and along with EPSON and SLED (rosebud), I talked myself into it as a wild guess even though I never found a sound mechanism to derive it.
Other approaches I tried are too numerous to mention. Congrats to those who got it!!
- PeterLeea1a
- Posts: 138
- Joined: Thu May 09, 2019 5:49 pm
Shame on me for not getting this. I noticed the pattern of letters down spelling the name, and viewed ROWS as a clue suggesting one letter per row, but didn't see how to connect the dots.
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- Posts: 101
- Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:05 pm
- TMart
- Posts: 816
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:13 am
- Location: Malvern, PA
Surprisingly simple yet surprisingly difficult. After spending way too much time trying to backsolve for Thomas Jefferson, the Shenkian hint at 59 down jumped out at me. I also knew the C from CAUL and CRIT had to be important, since GAUL and GRIT there would have been more conventional. Great puzzle.
- Toby
- Posts: 332
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:00 pm
- Location: New York City
I tried many of the false leads described above, as well as complex multiples of four. And then, there it was in plain sight, by the dawn's early light.
- BarbaraK
- Posts: 2592
- Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:37 pm
- Location: Virginia
I never did get this one. Noticed 59D right away and kept coming back to that between other rabbit holes involving theme answers, the number 4, etc, etc, etc. I tried adding a letter to the beginning or end of each row, looking for duplicated letters, combining words, everything but taking the 4th letter.
Then I decided to see what else there were 15 of in the grid and found A, S, and T. No famous initials there, but right at the top, it says "Add F. Stop." So add an F and you can gets Fats - Fats Domino. I knew that wasn't right; Mike would never have a meta that clunky. That's more like what I'd end up with if I tried to write a meta.
My favorite rabbit hole involving theme answer was body parts. HART -> heart. Then combine CRANE with EM(FORSTER) for cranium. Then EIS(ENHOWER) -> eyes.
Then I decided to see what else there were 15 of in the grid and found A, S, and T. No famous initials there, but right at the top, it says "Add F. Stop." So add an F and you can gets Fats - Fats Domino. I knew that wasn't right; Mike would never have a meta that clunky. That's more like what I'd end up with if I tried to write a meta.
My favorite rabbit hole involving theme answer was body parts. HART -> heart. Then combine CRANE with EM(FORSTER) for cranium. Then EIS(ENHOWER) -> eyes.
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- Posts: 43
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:37 am
- Location: WA State
I don’t see it either, @0644 PDT.
Btw: couldn’t figure out the Fri crossword. Used the title but in the most difficult and incorrect ways possible!
- Tom Shea
- Posts: 598
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:37 am
- Location: Freedonia, NH/VT/HI/Earth
Doh!
Got stuck on JP Sousa. Never got back to it after that darned martini Isaac made me.
Very much in the shoulda got it category.
Answer not up, maybe they'll wait until the fourth.
Happy Independence Day to all.
Got stuck on JP Sousa. Never got back to it after that darned martini Isaac made me.
Very much in the shoulda got it category.
Answer not up, maybe they'll wait until the fourth.
Happy Independence Day to all.
Rufus T. Firefly
- Don S.
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:45 pm
- Location: The Great Midwest
CAUL was the trigger for me, like for several others. As I'm filling in this word in the grid that isn't even in my spellcheck dictionary, I wonder, why not use GAUL/GRIT? Or BAIL/BRIT, WAIL/WRIT? Unless you absolutely had to have a C in that square for the meta... Whenever there's a strange word that you seldom see in a crossword in a place where far more common words would easily fit, it usually was needed for the meta...
- tim1217
- Posts: 299
- Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:58 pm
- Location: Small Town America
My path to the correct answer was literally 'stumbling across it' after 48 hours of nothingness. I initially interpreted the 'fourth' as correctly referencing the 4th of July, but I convinced myself the answer must be UNCLE SAM. As I said previously, once you get an idea in your head about the correct answer, trying to work it backwards is virtually impossible...especially if it's the wrong answer! I'm surprised I'm not seeing more muggles who guessed that. I'll be interested in seeing Mike's statistics.
- hcbirker
- Posts: 1985
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:24 pm
- Location: Studio City, CA
Heidi
- hcbirker
- Posts: 1985
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:24 pm
- Location: Studio City, CA
Uncle Sam isn't a real person, so I tossed that one out pretty quickly. (Heidi)tim1217 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:36 am My path to the correct answer was literally 'stumbling across it' after 48 hours of nothingness. I initially interpreted the 'fourth' as correctly referencing the 4th of July, but I convinced myself the answer must be UNCLE SAM. As I said previously, once you get an idea in your head about the correct answer, trying to work it backwards is virtually impossible...especially if it's the wrong answer! I'm surprised I'm not seeing more muggles who guessed that. I'll be interested in seeing Mike's statistics.
Heidi
- Joedbee
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:12 pm
I got hung up on Stephen Foster who was born on the fourth of July. There was a Fo(r)ster in 44A but the 'r' was a problem plus it seemed to be too much of a softball anyway. Then looked for men's names in the rows and there were those but the 'fourth man' in order went nowhere. Also thought about the fourth man being Seth according to the Bible but that also led nowhere. Good meta - congrats to those who solved it.
- Hector
- Posts: 1297
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:15 pm
- Location: San Francisco
- Contact:
I thought the natural July 4th man would be George M. Cohan, the Yankee Doodle Boy. Couldn't find him, and maybe too his "fame" has dimmed. But it was also Pride weekend, and there are four famous gay men in the grid: HARTCRANE, EMFORSTER, MICHEL Foucault, and Harvey MILK. Milk is the fourth, grid-wise. An awkwardness is that that's ignoring OTIS, which was clued as a company, but its eponymous founder was a man; but then MILK was clued as a movie---which, thinking of it, is too much of a give-away for a meta answer anyway. Also strange Pride-wise is the inclusion of EISENHOWER, whose Executive Order 10450 excluded gay people from government employment.
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- Posts: 390
- Joined: Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:07 pm
- Location: South Williamsport, PA
I threw a "Hail Mary" that misfired ridiculously but, in my Isaac-induced haze, made perfect sense at the time. I guessed James Madison, a different sort of No. 4, after stealing "Jam" from 17A, "Mad" from 56D and "son" from 58D ... and binding it all in duct tape and false hope. Congrats to all whose eyes were more clearly focused on the rocket's red glare; best wishes to all for a safe, relaxing and rewarding Fourth.
- gamera13
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:31 pm
That's funny! I spent a lot of time trying to work backwards from some thoughts I had. E.g., Al Gore was the fourth MAN who won the popular presidential vote but lost the electoral vote....I got a good laugh seeing ALOE and SNORE on the next to last line. Close but no cigar. I thought the 15 rows was a clue for the meta but quickly disregarded it despite trying REALLY hard to make sense of the 4th letters of the longest across answers.
Anyway, clever meta and wish I had solved it. Congrats to those who did!
Who got the mug?
Anyway, clever meta and wish I had solved it. Congrats to those who did!
Who got the mug?
- pddigi
- Posts: 154
- Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:57 pm
Dom guided me along the path with his usual cryptic help, so as not to give it away too easily. When I finally got it, I texted him: Jose Canusì. I wanted to be a bit cryptic to him, and I do think he had to pause to realize that I had, indeed, figured this one out.
- BethA
- Posts: 624
- Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 6:44 pm
- Location: Beaver, PA
I did that, too! Imagine my excitement that those three letters are in HEARST!
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- Posts: 828
- Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:55 pm
No, I didn't come across CAUL today. BUT, I really am not too familiar with E. M. Forster and never read any of his works. Obviously I know he wrote Passage to India, but I never read it. His name doesn't pop up too often in my life. And today, in what I think is a complete fluke(I'm pretty sure it's not Mike who puts out this daily puzzle), he (E. M. Forster) was the author of a quote used in a daily cryptogram that I do.
- Meg
- Posts: 2136
- Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:41 pm
- Location: St. Petersburg, FL
I thought any puzzle about July 4th would be next week, but then I realized it’s a Friday puzzle, not a Thursday puzzle. Considered Hearst and every 4th letter and all clues starting with 4. Finally the brain tried something new! This wasn’t a fun meta for me.
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